Posts: 3,965
Threads: 211
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Sep 2008
Seamus Coogan Wrote:Al mate cmon! Let's go and ask Jim Douglas who he believes killed JFK shall we mate? It sure as hell won't be Israel, nor do I think he'd opt for Israeli involvement. This is where people have to be careful bro, because you were here with me and CD when we gave JF a bit of a poke for imbibing Douglas' work with his own crazed ideas concerning Phil Nelson. One swallow does not a summer make my friend.
A friendly word of advice: The appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
Posts: 408
Threads: 14
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Mar 2011
LBJ the Mastermind, Fetzer and Cinque, Lovelady's shirt, the Z film and now Ben Gurion and Piper. Small details discussed to exhaustion while
avoiding the big issues that matters with respect to the JFK assassination. Busyness...C.D Jackson, hats off, you were a true master of distraction and disinformation.
Posts: 885
Threads: 30
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Jan 2011
Charles Drago Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:Al mate cmon! Let's go and ask Jim Douglas who he believes killed JFK shall we mate? It sure as hell won't be Israel, nor do I think he'd opt for Israeli involvement. This is where people have to be careful bro, because you were here with me and CD when we gave JF a bit of a poke for imbibing Douglas' work with his own crazed ideas concerning Phil Nelson. One swallow does not a summer make my friend.
A friendly word of advice: The appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
I can see where you are at CD, I can also see what Al was saying about Douglas in the previous post. Yet, since my experience with JF and PN. I get a little jumpy when Douglas is bought into the equation.
Lest we forget Jim Di and yep GME our respective 'totems' have been taken out of context to support many an argument. A case in point is Piper himself. In the links I noted he used a comment by GME, which was rather sardonic towards Pipers efforts and seems to have made out as if GME was in support of his book. Another one I came across was Jim Di being quoted as an advocate of the La Rouchies by Piper as well. Something I seriously doubt. I think an appeal to a higher authority or an author to get clarification on a point is thus pretty kosher and not at all insane. Hell, you've asked me before to explain some or other decision or comment I've made on here. I actually welcome the chance to clarify a point. As would you welcome my enquiries were I to deal with a piece of Evica's I was struggle with, had a disagreement over or had got wrong. A
As for Pipes book Al and its being a hot bed of information, trust me buddy I have read it. I will again likely as I plan to do an essay on it, with a few contributors.
"In the Kennedy assassination we must be careful of running off into the ether of our own imaginations." Carl Ogelsby circa 1992
Posts: 5,374
Threads: 149
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Sep 2010
Seamus Coogan Wrote:As for Pipes book Al and its being a hot bed of information, trust me buddy I have read it. I will again likely as I plan to do an essay on it, with a few contributors.
Seamus, are you confusing Pipes and Piper?
Posts: 885
Threads: 30
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Jan 2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:As for Pipes book Al and its being a hot bed of information, trust me buddy I have read it. I will again likely as I plan to do an essay on it, with a few contributors.
Seamus, are you confusing Pipes and Piper?
No not the people Al mate. It's just I was writing a bit about that horrific dork Pipes recently and it's just reflex damn it lol!
"In the Kennedy assassination we must be careful of running off into the ether of our own imaginations." Carl Ogelsby circa 1992
Posts: 1,473
Threads: 2
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Aug 2009
At #82:
So they did the clever thing and kept putting him off until they could put him six feet under.
QED Israel in the Billiard Room with the Candlestick.
What's on the telly?*
*On the Historical Revision Channel tonight, another treasure on Circular Logic: Oswald shot at Walker and killed Tippit hence killed JFK--on behalf of Zionists.
Posts: 17,304
Threads: 3,464
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 2
Joined: Sep 2008
Albert Doyle Wrote:Magda Hassan Wrote:This is all supposition on your part Mark. All fantasy. No facts. Not reflected by any known reality. Nor based in the reality of the politics of the region of the day.
Just the opposite. Those around Ben-Gurion said he was driven to such stress by his nuclear negotiations with Kennedy that they were worried about his mental stability and he was forced out of office. Pretty strong influence for what you call a fantasy. Piper says Kennedy's letters to Ben-Gurion are still classified and unavailable to the public.
I don't see how people could try to minimize what was going on here. Kennedy had the power to control Israel's weapons. Israel lied, built false walls in their facilities, and even constructed an entirely new complex just to get around Kennedy's inspectors. Me thinks some people have no idea what was written in Piper's book.
As part of the detente Kennedy was illustrated as practicing in The Unspeakable he tried to keep Israel from developing nuclear weapons and upping the ante in the Middle East. He knew that the current disproportionate imbalance would occur and Israel would become more bold in its actions against the arabs, forcing them to the Soviets and creating a more polarized and heightened conflict.
I'm sorry Magda, but what you write is entirely untrue. Ask Vanunu if it is fantasy.
Yes, Ben Gurion was determined to have his bomb. Stressful indeed. For all concerned. I would have been extremely stressed if I was in the same position determined to get the bomb. It is existential. Détente was with powerful countries like the Soviet Union and China. Israel was a pissant country with a rag tag military surrounded by angry disorganised Arabs. Kennedy's concern was to limit the influence of the Soviets in the region and keep Israel there for western interests. Ultimately he was on Israel's side regardless. No need to kill friends and make un-necessary difficulties for yourself.
As for Vanunu I'm pleased you bring him up. He converted at the Anglican church St John's down the road from me next door to my usual coffee shop. My dear, now departed, friend Roland and his friend the Colombian were on some Work for the Dole job repairing the roof of the church. They were fascinated by this Israeli guy who was there a lot and who had these really interesting photos that some body really ought to do some thing about. Being a junkie and a bit of a scammer Roland was probably looking for a cut of any commissions paid for the story but he also genuinely liked the guy. Together with some others it was arranged that he take the photos to the Fairfax press here who seemed to do fuck all with them. Then the decision to take them to the UK where he might have a better chance of finding some one to take it seriously. I think some contact was made with a British journalist from Sydney. Even if the Herald didn't take him seriously some one did. There were a lot of strange people lurking around in cars and around corners then. So, they were on to him well before he even set foot in the UK. JFK and Mordechai were on the same page morally, spiritually. But Mordechai was a man who was in a position to do much more damage to the military state of Israel than JFK could hope to do. He was an eyewitness to the truth and he was a man of conscience. His expose of the weapons programme could have and should have, according to US law, put an end to all US military aid. Very very serious money in the mid 1980's as it is today. Not as it was in 1963. But they didn't kill Mordechai either. And they could have so much more easily. No one would have even known and no blow back. Cindy could have ditched him over board on that boat they holidayed on. Just like Robert Maxwell. Just another poor swimmer.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Posts: 17,304
Threads: 3,464
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 2
Joined: Sep 2008
Mark Stapleton Wrote:Magda Hassan Wrote:This is all supposition on your part Mark. All fantasy. No facts. Not reflected by any known reality. Nor based in the reality of the politics of the region of the day.
Of course it's supposition Magda. This is why Kennedy was eliminated, in my opinion. I can't prove it. You can't disprove it.
As for being all fantasy and no facts, you know that isn't true.
Well, it holds as much water as LHO being the lone nut who just decided to go to work that day with his rifle because he wanted to be famous. A perfectly good scenario can be made to fit this theory too. But it is all supposition and no more based in reality than yours. The lone nut theory is disproved and so is the Israeli theory. Nothing to either of them.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Mark Stapleton
Unregistered
Phil Dragoo Wrote:At #82:
So they did the clever thing and kept putting him off until they could put him six feet under.
QED Israel in the Billiard Room with the Candlestick.
What's on the telly?*
*On the Historical Revision Channel tonight, another treasure on Circular Logic: Oswald shot at Walker and killed Tippit hence killed JFK--on behalf of Zionists.
Yeah sure.
And I guess Israel doesn't control the US Congress either. That's just circular logic, eh?
Mark Stapleton
Unregistered
Magda Hassan Wrote:Israel was a pissant country with a rag tag military surrounded by angry disorganised Arabs. Kennedy's concern was to limit the influence of the Soviets in the region and keep Israel there for western interests. Ultimately he was on Israel's side regardless. No need to kill friends and make un-necessary difficulties for yourself.
That's the point. As far as Ben-Gurion and his inner circle were concerned, preventing Israel from acquiring the nuclear deterrent was not the act of a friend. By the time he resigned in June 1963, Ben-Gurion didn't consider JFK a friend of Israel. He refused to read JFK's final letter to him which arrived the day he resigned.
LBJ was their friend. He showed it during the Suez crisis and he would reinforce it again when Israel attacked the USS Liberty.
And though you describe Israel as a pissant country, they still had very powerful friends and sympathisers in the US, media owners and business leaders included. They didn't like Kennedy either.
|
