Michael Piper and Final Judgment

[Albert Doyle]

As Cyril Wecht once said about Baden and his new trajectory for the SBT in accordance with JFK's position in the Z film:

"Yes, and if my mother had a penis, she'd be my father."

Keep on trying to be a contortionist Albert. Maybe one day you will be on TV.

Good, when you get someone to give an answer like this you've pretty much won. And it is evidenced by all the information in Piper's book you've completely dodged. That information carries Piper's case (albeit maybe not Ben Gurion's sponsorship), as does your conspicuous avoidance of it.

[Jim DiEugenio]

Yeah. You and Piper won just like Baden won the SBT debate.

Nope. Baden was just was not worth arguing with since his arguments had no merit. Just like yours and Piper's don't.

And I am not going to spend my time on someone, who as with my experience with Janney, just likes to hear the sound of his own voice. No matter how silly he sounds.

[Greg Burnham]

Yeah. You and Piper won just like Baden won the SBT debate.

Nope. Baden was just was not worth arguing with since his arguments had no merit. Just like yours and Piper's don't.

And I am not going to spend my time on someone, who as with my experience with Janney, just likes to hear the sound of his own voice. No matter how silly he sounds.

Sometimes Albert just can't get out of his own way.

[Phil Dragoo]

Rago claims Oswald was an assassin--

That's all, Folks.

McKnight and the proven lack of GSR

Rago as Zionists-did-it--

Using Piper and Angleton--

What is being debated?

Two states--excellent.

Two states of mind: sober or drunk?

I posit the third is correct:

Langley has sent a troll by way of the sewers of the internet

thus erasing any connection--

--so, it did (or does) involve a sewer

after all:

Rago: The Sewer Shooter

[Charles Drago]

And the EF is the sewer as well as the swamp.

[Mark Stapleton]

[quote=Charles Drago]Here's "Rago" opening the kimono:

"Yes I do think that Oswald was a 'patsy' and an assassin. He probably thought that he was the only assassin. I think he was a willing participant. I do not think that he knew about the other assassin

I can see someone new to the JFK case saying that. Maybe he was drunk.

I still think he makes some good posts.

At least you're stepping back from the "impressive researcher" description of "Rago" that you first offered.

So "Rago" presents lunatic ravings, but "he" get's a pass because "he's" a rookie?

Or "Rago" is a drunk, so only "his" sober posts should be taken seriously?

Stop it, Mark. You're aligning yourself with, at best, a fool -- if not an agent provocateur.

I'll be the judge of that. But your dislike for this person is clear and duly noted Charles. Let it go old chap.

Jim Phelps posts were, for me, the closest depiction of who killed JFK and why that I've yet seen. I think that's exactly what went down.

[Mark Stapleton]

But to try and utilize the anger and frustration against Israel on this issue and channel it into the JFK case and hope that you can pick up some advocates that way by mentioning things like the Liberty and that Angleton manned the Israeli desk at CIA, I mean to me this is scraping around a trash bin in an anti Semitic crusade in order to dupe people for one's own purposes. Relying on their ignorance of the USA-Israel alliance in the early sixties. It was nothing like it became after the two Arab-Israeli wars--not even close.

So you're claiming the US/Israel alliance underwent great change after the Arab-Israeli wars? In what respect?

Incidentally, Angleton is a major link to Israel in the JFK case. He went to Israel in 1951 and helped establish Mossad. He spent his career shining the light of suspicion on the Soviets for absolutely everything. His loyalty was so strong there is a monument to the man in Israel, for heaven's sake.

[Mark Stapleton]

3. He wants everyone to think that somehow people like Garrison, Melanson, and Newman were all barking up the wrong tree by saying the CIA was the prime suspect in the case. And he wants us all to forget all the good evidence they,and others, have produced to demonstrate that.

Some of that 'good evidence' was faulty then, because the CIA is not the prime suspect in the case. The CIA had nowhere near the power to plan, carry out and cover up the assassination. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Mark Stapleton]

But to try and utilize the anger and frustration against Israel on this issue and channel it into the JFK case and hope that you can pick up some advocates that way by mentioning things like the Liberty and that Angleton manned the Israeli desk at CIA, I mean to me this is scraping around a trash bin in an anti Semitic crusade in order to dupe people for one's own purposes. Relying on their ignorance of the USA-Israel alliance in the early sixties. It was nothing like it became after the two Arab-Israeli wars--not even close.


PS: For the record, I did read Final Judgment. As with many disinfo books on this case, I threw it out.

Ah, but the Liberty and Angleton's being CIA liaison to Israel could actually be evidence of this alliance. Just because you scoff them doesn't mean it isn't evidence. I'm surprised because you normally practice a higher level of scholarly scrutiny than this. If you did respectful justice to what Piper actually wrote you would see that both Clay Shaw and Angleton had deep connections to the formative Mossad through the OSS in Italy that is highly relevant to the Assassination and the cabal behind it. I'm shocked at you because you make a business out of criticizing others for doing this kind of critical omission.

Your logic is also flawed because you fail to recognize how Piper details the actual dynamic transfer or Passage Of Power to Israel (you admit above) via the zionist Kennedy assassination cabal. It isn't a mistake that relationship happened after JFK's assassination and I think you have no right to not only ignore it, as you do, but to dismiss it in such short terms. If you actually honored the integrity of Final Judgment you would find Piper discovered some very credible and valuable stuff in that trash bin. Everything that you haven't discussed.

I'm afraid you've tossed both Mary's Mosaic and Final Judgment a little too quickly. In fact I hold that the main Assassination researchers' fear of Zionist restriction of Israel's role in the assassination is evidence itself of that involvement. If you know anything about CIA this is where they hide their doings. Behind divisive divide and conquer internal disruption. I believe this isn't a case of rogue claims damaging assassination research integrity as much as unfair denial damaging the integrity of the truth behind Israel's involvement (in whatever form that came). I also hold that it is more than coincidence that JFK's letters to Ben Gurion and the JFK files are both still classified. Nor is the letter in Sirhan's pocket claiming defense of Palestine unrelated either.

In the end you haven't touched most of what Piper elaborated nor explained Echevarria's comment.

Albert, of course he hasn't. Like some others here, he just doesn't want to know.

An objective investigator into this case would never dismiss the brinkmanship going on between JFK and Israel over Dimona, and the fact that Kennedy's death was a sudden circuit breaker which ended this deadlock. Nor would an objective investigation dismiss Ruby's close ties to Israel and Lansky. Or LBJ's lifetime devotion to Israel, from Operation Texas in the 1940's, aggressive advocacy on Israel's behalf during the Suez crisis, green light for Dimona, massive military funding increases for the Zionist state during the mid 60's and his disgraceful coverup of the Liberty attack in 1967. An objective researcher would hardly dismiss these links to Israel as 'scraping around a trash bin in an anti-semitic crusade'. If he was searching for the truth, that is.

An objective researcher might also look at other possible links to Israel, like the role played by Julius Scheppes and Sam Bloom for example, the Dallas businessmen who shared both a fierce loyalty to Israel and control of the Dallas Citizens Council. This was the same DCC which organised both the motorcade route (which they refused to change despite the urging of the SS advance man) and the Sunday morning transfer of LHO which of course resulted in his assassination by Jack Ruby.

A researcher with any curiosity at all would look closely at these things, even if just to put them to bed. Unless of course he or she is a gatekeeper.

[Dawn Meredith]

3. He wants everyone to think that somehow people like Garrison, Melanson, and Newman were all barking up the wrong tree by saying the CIA was the prime suspect in the case. And he wants us all to forget all the good evidence they,and others, have produced to demonstrate that.

Some of that 'good evidence' was faulty then, because the CIA is not the prime suspect in the case. The CIA had nowhere near the power to plan, carry out and cover up the assassination. You don't know what you're talking about.

Jim does "know what (he) is talking about re. Israel. So what you are saying basically is unless we all agree with you that Israel was the prime mover we just don't understand.

You and Albert are entitled to your views. No matter how many of us disagree. I am done on this. You are one note and the rest of us are not buying. At least Jim read Piper. I would not even do that.
And as I said earlier I am NO fan of the policies of Israel.

Dawn