Destiny Betrayed is shipping

[Albert Doyle]

But I'm still keeping an open mind.

Honestly Marc I don't see how anyone could read 'Destiny Betrayed' and come away with any notion there was still a possibility of Lone Nut validity. As usual DiEugenio is pretty air-tight.

[Marc Ellis]

I'm reading it a second time. In areas that interest me, like the 544 Camp/531 Lafayette Street question, I'll cross-check with a LN site, such as McAdams.

McAdams' explanation of why Oswald put that address on his FPFC flyers is bogus. First he argues that there are two addresses and two entrances. Yes - 531 Lafayette & 544 Camp are different addresses. But they are also the same damned building. (BTW, there is now a Federal Courthouse on that piece of ground.)

The Newman building had one owner even if it did have two addresses and entrances. So why then did LHO put 544 Camp Street on those flyers?

McAdams' answer seems to be that Oswald just screwed up. But that doesn't answer the question of why he screwed up in that particular way. LHO put that address on those flyers. Everybody agrees he stamped 544 Camp Street on them. The WC, the HSCA, even the LN'ers agree. So why did LHO do that?

The problem I have with the LN theory is that one has to buy into not just one screw-up. You have to buy into a cascading fountain of screw-ups, accidents & coincidences leading to Oswald's assassination by Ruby. It not only strains credulity. It shreds it.

Something I want to know though & DiEugenio doesn't answer it. Why did RFK sabotage the Garrison investigation? That's the only conclusion I can draw. RFK didn't want Garrison investigating the case. Why?

I think there is no papering over that. RFK sabotaged the Garrison's investigation into his brother's death.

Why?

On the down-side, I'm not yet persuaded JFK was abandoning the Cold Warrior mentality. He had an election coming up in 1964.
One Vietnam-related executive order JFK did not rescind involved the use of herbicides in Vietnam. (Operation Ranch Hand)

[Jim DiEugenio]

I don't agree with that at all.

As I note in my book, and I am very specific about this in unprecedented detail, the people responsible for undermining Garrison are:

1. The CIA and Allen Dulles: responsible for thirst three penetrations of Garrison's office by DeTorres, Gurviches and Novel. Later, the Garrison Group.

2. NBC and the Sarnoffs and WDSU

3. Hoover and the FBI

4. Walter Sheridan on assignment for the CIA, not Bobby Kennedy. THe proof of that is the money being funneled through Monroe and Leeman, the CIA connected law firm for WDSU which i mention in the book.

In fact, I include in my book the anecdote about Mort Sahl's wife telling him that Bobby kept on bugging her about what Garrison was coming up with. And also, RFK called Chetta's home to find out about what he was going to rule on Ferrie's death.

Believe me, this is something i really tried to do a state of the art job on to make it both complete and comprehensible.

[Marc Ellis]

I don't agree with that at all.

As I note in my book, and I am very specific about this in unprecedented detail, the people responsible for undermining Garrison are:

1. The CIA and Allen Dulles: responsible for thirst three penetrations of Garrison's office by DeTorres, Gurviches and Novel. Later, the Garrison Group.

2. NBC and the Sarnoffs and WDSU

3. Hoover and the FBI

4. Walter Sheridan on assignment for the CIA, not Bobby Kennedy. THe proof of that is the money being funneled through Monroe and Leeman, the CIA connected law firm for WDSU which i mention in the book.

In fact, I include in my book the anecdote about Mort Sahl's wife telling him that Bobby kept on bugging her about what Garrison was coming up with. And also, RFK called Chetta's home to find out about what he was going to rule on Ferrie's death.

Believe me, this is something i really tried to do a state of the art job on to make it both complete and comprehensible.

Garrison seemed to think RFK was sabotaging his case too, didn't he?

That's the conclusion I draw. Great book. I'm on my second read.

[Albert Doyle]

4. Walter Sheridan on assignment for the CIA, not Bobby Kennedy. THe proof of that is the money being funneled through Monroe and Leeman, the CIA connected law firm for WDSU which i mention in the book.

Don't forget Snyder and the weasel Aynesworth. What killed Garrison was the defamation being done against him influenced the jury more than the obvious evidence Shaw was Bertrand. Because of this Garrison was legally stopped from forcing the question why was Shaw trying to get Dean Andrews to defend Oswald?


This case should be re-tried at the federal level with the government as a defendant.

[Tracy Riddle]

Why WAS Shaw trying to get Andrews to defend Oswald? I can only guess that Shaw was a minor player in the whole thing and had no idea what Oswald was being set up for, or he wouldn't have exposed himself and Andrews like that.

[Albert Doyle]

Why WAS Shaw trying to get Andrews to defend Oswald? I can only guess that Shaw was a minor player in the whole thing and had no idea what Oswald was being set up for, or he wouldn't have exposed himself and Andrews like that.

Or Shaw was a major player doing damage control after Oswald failed to get himself killed at the theater. His assignment being to make Oswald think the team was still covering his back so he would never expect Ruby's bullet in the basement.

[Jim DiEugenio]

4. Walter Sheridan on assignment for the CIA, not Bobby Kennedy. THe proof of that is the money being funneled through Monroe and Leeman, the CIA connected law firm for WDSU which i mention in the book.

Don't forget Snyder and the weasel Aynesworth. What killed Garrison was the defamation being done against him influenced the jury more than the obvious evidence Shaw was Bertrand. Because of this Garrison was legally stopped from forcing the question why was Shaw trying to get Dean Andrews to defend Oswald?


This case should be re-tried at the federal level with the government as a defendant.

THat is also true. The local media, with Snyder leading the way, was doing all they could to try and defame Garrison and get to his witnesses to change their stories. This part of the story is really sordid and shocking.

BTW, there is a tape up at ctka about Larry King and Garrison. Really interesting. Garrison predicted Bobby Kennedy would be killed.

[Don Jeffries]

I think Shaw, like Ferrie and Ruby, was involved at the ground level of the conspiracy. They were instructed to interact with Oswald in a particular way, much as Oswald was ordered to infiltrate what he was told was a potential plot to kill JFK. At least that's my speculation. I don't believe they were cognizant of anything more than that, and at least Ruby and Ferrie were patsies in a way themselves.

I would put the Paines in this same ground level category.

[Tracy Riddle]

I think Shaw, like Ferrie and Ruby, was involved at the ground level of the conspiracy. They were instructed to interact with Oswald in a particular way, much as Oswald was ordered to infiltrate what he was told was a potential plot to kill JFK. At least that's my speculation. I don't believe they were cognizant of anything more than that, and at least Ruby and Ferrie were patsies in a way themselves.

I would put the Paines in this same ground level category.

I agree. Compartmentalization keeps most of the players ignorant about the big picture. This is why Jack Ruby in his letters and interviews in jail keeps speculating about who was at the top of the whole thing and how he was trapped. Ruby was probably assured that no jury in the world would convict him, and he would be a big hero for killing Oswald.

As for 544 Camp St, I vaguely remember Posner explaining it away by saying that Oswald sometimes walked around that neighborhood, saw that address and just randomly picked it to put on his leaflets. Didn't the other leaflets have his P.O. Box wrong too? If someone is really trying to form a FPCC chapter, why would he give people fake addresses?