A Simple Question as We Prepare for the 50th

[Jim Hackett II]

The issue of killing Custer in a political context would fit the pattern of the Empire "robber-barons".

I do not know enough about the machinations of the Elite in this circumstance. The concept most definitely is borne out by events. Timing can be so revealing in covert ops. Circumstantial Evidence but none the less evidence in the timing of some events.

Akin to JFK openly (in his cabinet and beyond - NSAM 263 signed by JFK not signed in his name) defining his SE Asia game refusal and within weeks he dies, timing.
Or Someone buying WTC and within weeks making a killing on murder by state, timing.

Hyperbolas? Maybe. Timing.
End result? An area I will check out. A good thing.
Thank You Charles

[David Josephs]

First I am convinced I MUST get Mr. Evica's book mentioned. I don't have it.

Second. You Sir have been called a poet, I have to agree, but it is more than any pentameter.
Clear and to the pertinent points with wit and exposure of details some may well have "forgotten".

Thanks a Bunch.

A point you made above is demonstrative of my point. Our Fascism is homegrown, not imported from anywhere else.

Best Regards and keep doing that which you do for our benefit.
Jim

FASCISM
often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation (DJ: read "corporation") and often race (DJ: read "Class") above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition (DJ: Again, seems to me that the Rothschilds thru Morgan et al imported political fascism via economic warfare in order to create the CFR which in turn IS the dictatorial leader mentioned)

"HOME grown" ??

Seems to me we imported EVERYTHING from Europe including the men who would use fascist doctrine in business and disguise it as capitalism... that those who had power in the US were placed by European interests and served European masters....

Reading thru this I for one would like to understand how we are using the term FASCISM and how, by example, we see this Fascism manifest itself in the US as being "Home Grown"

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articl...ascism.htm

thanks
DJ

Not paperclip. LOL.
Dulles could not have imported Gehlen without an implied "approval" of some thing from someone.
That approval wasn't imported from europe or anywhere else.
Fascism found fertile ground here without "imported" crap.
Idiots have come along to prove the point, Dugout Doug MacArthur and Walker and Custer and more
homegrown fascists. Geo. Rockwell.

In any guise Wall Street and the Elite have secretly embraced FASCISM all along. Sorry to burst your "europe did it" bubble, but Governance by dollar, government by corporation or by any other definition Fascism is as american as violence and apple pie and Chevrolet. It has american versions as Gen. Smedley Butler exposed.

You seek to argue. I have no need. The issues are historical fact.
I don't care if you want to argue, I don't play that for meaningless and useless confrontational junk.
Argue with yourself.
The issues are bigger than asking me to define fascism for you.:rofl::rofl:
I thought you did that for yourself above right?

Thanks again
Jim
Thanks too. But I don't have the energy or time to give to meaningless confrontational BS.
I really don't care who you like or don't and I never entered a popularity contest, just a truth seeking effort.

History demonstrates that FASCISM existed long before "europe" as a political entity, even before "Babylon" and its banking and trade empire of 2000 bc.

I did not post a comment to argue with anyone Jim... why you need be pre-emptively confrontational, IDK. :nono:

Jim, if FASCISM exited long before Europe and back to 2000BC...
and the Dulles', Morgan's and Rockefeller's were direct pawns of European Money using FASCIST techniques to control commerce and politics...

What exactly is AMERICAN HOME GROWN about any of it?

Sounds to me the concept and the people using it are anything BUT home grown...
but carefully planted, fertilized and cultivated by the same "Wall Street and Elite" (CFR) who first exercised it when they got here from OTHER places.

Jazz and Football are "American Home Grown"
Greed, hatred, fascism, and control existed WELL BEFORE the USA was even discovered....

yet as you say... we are not here to argue... and I only asked for YOUR understanding of Fascism and its manifestation in the US.

That the issues are bigger than my question is no big news Jim.

If discussing your POV and explaining yourself to someone who doesn't necessarily AGREE with you constitutes "meaningless confrontational BS",
so you don't have to put your beliefs and opinions to any test.... so be it.

I wont be bothering with you or your opinions any longer.

Take care
DJ

[Greg Burnham]

Easy boys...

I've known Jim for nearly 15 years. Good man. David, you know how much I respect you.

Perhaps all roads lead to Rome?

[David Josephs]

Easy boys...

I've known Jim for nearly 15 years. Good man. David, you know how much I respect you.

Perhaps all roads lead to Rome?

I have no beef with Jim... never did...

For him to go in that direction in reply was simply offputting....

I have my beliefs, he has his.
Discussing them and even disagreeing with each other still does not call for that tone with me.

Should we call the confrontation between Cain and Able a form of Fascism? How far back do we go.....

When one does a wiki search we find a number of definitions and interpretations:

Is it so invasive and argumentative to ask for a clarification of terms so a discussion can be had with a common basis?

DJ
Emilio Gentile describes fascism within ten constituent elements:[SUP][27][/SUP]

• "1) a mass movement with multiclass membership in which prevail, among the leaders and the militants, the middle sectors, in large part new to political activity, organized as a party militia, that bases its identity not on social hierarchy or class origin but on a sense of comradeship, believes itself invested with a mission of national regeneration, considers itself in a state of war against political adversaries and aims at conquering a monopoly of political power by using terror, parliamentary politics, and deals with leading groups, to create a new regime that destroys parliamentary democracy;"
  
• "2) an 'anti-ideological' and pragmatic ideology that proclaims itself antimaterialist, anti-individualist, antiliberal, antidemocratic, anti-Marxist, is populist and anticapitalist in tendency, expresses itself aesthetically more than theoretically by means of a new political style and by myths, rites, and symbols as a lay religion designed to acculturate, socialize, and integrate the faith of the masses with the goal of creating a 'new man';"
  
• "3) a culture founded on mystical thought and the tragic and activist sense of life conceived of as the manifestation of the will to power, on the myth of youth as artificer of history, and on the exaltation of the militarization of politics as the model of life and collective activity;"
  
• "4) a totalitarian conception of the primacy of politics, conceived of as an integrating experience to carry out the fusion of the individual and the masses in the organic and mystical unity of the nation as an ethnic and moral community, adopting measures of discrimination and persecution against those considered to be outside this community either as enemies of the regime or members of races considered to be inferior or otherwise dangerous for the integrity of the nation;"
  
• "5) a civil ethic founded on total dedication to the national community, on discipline, virility, comradeship, and the warrior spirit;"
  
• "6) a single state party that has the task of providing for the armed defense of the regime, selecting its directing cadres, and organizing the masses within the state in a process of permanent mobilization of emotion and faith;"
  
• "7) a police apparatus that prevents, controls, and represses dissidence and opposition, even by using organized terror;"
  
• "8) a political system organized by hierarchy of functions named from the top and crowned by the figure of the 'leader,' invested with a sacred charisma, who commands, directs, and coordinates the activities of the party and the regime;"
  
• "9) corporative organization of the economy that suppresses trade union liberty, broadens the sphere of state intervention, and seeks to achieve, by principles of technocracy and solidarity, the collaboration of the 'productive sectors' under control of the regime, to achieve its goals of power, yet preserving private property and class divisions;"
  
• "10) a foreign policy inspired by the myth of national power and greatness, with the goal of imperialist expansion."[SUP][27][/SUP]
  

Stanley Payne describes fascism within three sectors of characteristics: its ideology and goals, its negations, and its style and organization.[SUP][28][/SUP] They are the following:[SUP][28][/SUP]

• "A. Ideology and Goals:"
  • "Espousal of an idealist, vitalist, and voluntaristic philosophy, normally involving the attempt to realize a new modern, self-determined, and secular culture"
    
  • "Creation of a new nationalist authoritarian state not based on traditional principles or models"
    
  • "Organization of a new highly regulated, multiclass, integrated national economic structure, whether called national corporatist, national socialist, or national syndicalist"
    
  • "Positive evaluation and use of, or willingness to use violence and war"
    
  • "The goal of empire, expansion, or a radical change in the nation's relationship with other powers"
    
• "B. The Fascist Negations:"
  • "Antiliberalism"
    
  • "Anticommunism"
    
  • "Anticonservatism (though with the understanding that fascist groups were willing to undertake temporary alliances with other sectors, more commonly with the right)"
    
• "C. Style and Organization:"
  • "Attempted mass mobilization with militarization of political relationships and style and with the goal of a mass single party militia"
    
  • "Emphasis on aesthetic structure of meetings, symbols, and political liturgy, stressing emotional and mystical aspects"
    
  • "Extreme stress on the masculine principle and male dominance, while espousing a strongly organic view of society"
    
  • "Exaltation of youth above other phases of life, emphasizing the conflict of the generations, at least in effecting the initial political transformation"
    
  • "Specific tentency toward an authoritarian, charismatic, personal style of command, whether or not the command is to some degree initially elective"[SUP][28][/SUP]
    

Paxton sees fascism as "a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."[SUP][29]
[/SUP]
One common definition of fascism focuses on three groups of ideas:

• The Fascist Negations of anti-liberalism, anti-communism and anti-conservatism.
  
• Nationalist, authoritarian goals for the creation of a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture.
  
• A political aesthetic using romantic symbolism, mass mobilisation, a positive view of violence, promotion of masculinity and youth and charismatic leadership
  

[Charles Drago]

The issue of killing Custer in a political context would fit the pattern of the Empire "robber-barons".

I do not know enough about the machinations of the Elite in this circumstance. The concept most definitely is borne out by events. Timing can be so revealing in covert ops. Circumstantial Evidence but none the less evidence in the timing of some events.

Akin to JFK openly (in his cabinet and beyond - NSAM 263 signed by JFK not signed in his name) defining his SE Asia game refusal and within weeks he dies, timing.
Or Someone buying WTC and within weeks making a killing on murder by state, timing.

Hyperbolas? Maybe. Timing.
End result? An area I will check out. A good thing.
Thank You Charles

You're very welcome.

I direct your attention to the DPF thread Custer at Little Bighorn: A Deep Political Hypothesis. It is located at

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...ght=Custer

My minimally edited opening post there from 2010:

The Battle of the Little Bighorn (a/k/a Custer's Last Stand and the Battle of the Greasy Grass) stands with Gettysburg and the Alamo in the holy trinity of American military engagements fought on the home continent. The events of Sunday, June 25, 1876 leading to the annihilation of Brevet Major General George Armstrong Custer's command nucleus of five troops of the 7th U.S. Cavalry along the banks of a narrow, twisting river in the high plains country of what is now eastern Montana remain the subjects of intense scrutiny by an international cadre of scholars, amateur historians, and "buffs."

Literally thousands of books focusing on that engagement and its principal combatants have been published in the intervening 134 years. Yet mysteries and impassioned arguments regarding everything from the development of the battle itself to the motives and even mental states of Custer and at least two of his junior officers are ongoing.

For the purposes of this forum, I'll put forward the following hypothesis:

Deep political forces within the military/industrial complex of the time conspired to embarrass Custer -- and thus neutralize him as a political force viewed as a serious impediment to the fulfillment of Manifest Destiny -- by sabotaging his actions during the Montana campaign.

ITEM -- Custer had incurred the undying enmity of President Ulysses Grant. Earlier in 1876, the House Committee on Military Expenditures had conducted an investigation of various acts of Secretary of War William W. Belknap. Custer was called to testify in the proceedings. He all but confirmed the accusations not only against Belknap, but also against President Grant's brother, Orville Grant.

ITEM -- Custer had incurred the undying enmity of mining and railroad interests. In 1875, Custer had made a solemn, spiritual commitment to the Sioux (hereinafter Lakota) that he would not fight Native Americans again. Custer's promise coincided with a U.S. Senate commission meeting with Lakota leaders to purchase access to the gold mining fields in the Black Hills (which Custer had discovered a year earlier). The Lakota eventually turned down the government offer in favor of an 1868 treaty that promised U.S. military protection of their lands.

ITEM -- Custer, writing under the nom de plume Nomad in "Turf, Field and Farm," had reached a wide audience with his idealized depictions of "noble savages" and a way of life and wilderness worth preserving. At its core, the conflict between the indigenous peoples of the North American continent and Americans was and remains a spiritual conflict (ask Leonard Peltier).

How was the aforementioned "sabotage" carried out?

To reduce a long and complex story to its essence: Custer's attack on the huge village encountered at Little Bighorn was doomed to failure due to the actions and non-actions (including the refusal to obey at least one direct order) of the subordinate officers to whom he had entrusted command of combat battalions.

Historians continue to try -- in vain -- to explain why Captain Frederick Benteen refused to obey Custer's direct, written order, issued in the heat of battle, to ride to his commander's relief. As Custer's battalion came under fire, and as Major Marcus Reno senselessly ended his all-important charge against the village and retreated in panic across the river to take up a defensive position some five miles distant from Custer's final stand, Benteen casually watered his horses miles from the action and finally came up at a trot.

Benteen, an avowed Custer hater, found Reno's whipped troops and, rather than rallying them in a march toward Custer, sat impassively within the sound of Custer's vollying rifle fire (an established signal to indicate position and predicament) and allowed his commander's battalion to be destroyed.

I submit that the confusion of historians is the product of the absence of deep political analysis of Little Bighorn.

You should not read the absurdly condensed narrative offered above as an argument for George Armstrong Custer's highly developed moral conscience. The Boy General was an opportunist of the highest order. And he was America's first modern public relations creation. (In violation of a direct order, he brought Mark Kellogg, a reporter for the Bismarck Tribune, with him on the final campaign. They died less than a mile apart.)

There is much more to tell. My hypothesis is the basis for a motion picture treatment that I've written. The story of Little Bighorn is a bonanza for sub-plots. The best: The only officer at the Reno-Benteen position who attempted to ride to Custer's aid was Captain Thomas Weir -- the man who Custer suspected of having had an affair with Elizabeth Bacon Custer. Weir survived the Custer fight only to die -- allegedly of acute alcoholism -- less than six months later. Shortly before his demise, he wrote to Libby Custer to note that he knew the "real" story of why her husband perished.

In any event, I hope this little exercise in deep political thinking helps us along as we pursue more contemporary -- but hardly more relevant -- inquiries.

[Jim Hackett II]

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums...ghlight=Custer


I knew a little of this, but not the depth of who was tied to whom. Nor did I know the pending scandal involving GACuster.

In high school I was taught Benteen and Reno could NOT relieve Custer except by also being wiped out.
I knew that was BS even then. The absence of courts martial was the give away.

I would say the hypothesis you advanced is quite reasonable. Fitting both the known evidence and making a valid prediction of the future events, i.e. exploitation of the nations and their resources that followed in the renewal of the "indian wars". The words of the empire.

The ST of the 19th Century at work is now my opinion of the LBH, another fable.

Jim

[Jim Hackett II]

I apologize if I over reacted.

I took a quote of myself in reply to be a post directed to me.

I would defend any American's or anyone's (for that matter) right to hold any view, just on principle, and the right to express that view.

As I said before, my opinion is that there is more to agree upon than to disagree about.

Th ... Thh .... That's All Folks.

[Charles Drago]

OK, let's get back on an even keel if we can and revisit the topic of this thread.

Again, what I'm looking for is a simple declaration of what it would take for us to declare victory.

Which is another of asking after the nature of our objectives.

[Greg Burnham]

OK, let's get back on an even keel if we can and revisit the topic of this thread.

Again, what I'm looking for is a simple declaration of what it would take for us to declare victory.

Which is another of asking after the nature of our objectives.

In my view:

1) There is no chance that the government (not "We the People" as it should connote) will concede perfidy

2) There is no chance that those who actually "pulled triggers" will be brought to justice

3) There is no chance that those who set the above "trigger pullers" in motion will be brought to justice

4) There is no chance that we will discover what actually did happen, notwithstanding the fact that we already know what did NOT happen

5) There is a very good chance that the American People will continue to fail to accept what the "Events in Dallas" MEAN about their liberty

6) There is no chance that conspiracy in the murder of John Kennedy in Dallas will be widely acknowledged as HISTORICALLY accurate by the "powers that be" -- even though those in power are only there at our pleasure

My objective is to inform this--and the next generation--as to the dangers of government run amok. My objective will be met when I have fought the good fight to that end. My objective is that we never forget our dying king.
These objectives will be met...not in my lifetime, but perhaps in my grandkids' lifetimes...or their children's children's lifetime. Do not forget JFK. He made a difference for all of us. Do not forget JFK.

[Phil Dragoo]

Aldous Huxley's Brave New World held Henry Ford as saviour, "ending is better than mending," "a gram is better than a damn," test tube children and that "hug me, Honey, drug me" drove the savage to the noose.

Too much effort in describing ad hoc measures gives them a solidness not their own. The only constant is the imperative for power; whether that comes from feigned communitarianism, monarchy, class warfare, xenophobia, or the unpredictable Stalinesque act of cruelty, it is the end, not the means at the center.

Kennedy was inconvenient to the power process, as was Custer. As was Patton.

I would consider it a good day when the mass of the nation perceives its place as expendable exploitees of hidden brokers.

That the removal of John F. Kennedy Thirty-Fifth President of the United States was an act of the crassest display of power.

That the individual heretofore blamed for the crime was ignorant of the bloody denouement.

That the duly formed and thoroughly corrupted agencies of the government were willing handmaidens to the crime, serving in any capacity save that of sponsor.

That position being reserved for the unseen cabal possessing the power.

A constitution and a republic are merely cages and leashes by which honorable men seek to restrain the beast.

The beast is not contained by any political definition nor confined to a mortal shell with birth and death.

Were the people to turn from America's Got Talent and acknowledge America's Got Dark Overlords, it would be a better day.

There are a thousand ways to the same achievement, and Greg notes Rome as the confluence of so many roads.

That we are largely European refugees demonstrates at one point we realized the antifreedom forces there.

I posit they now use domestic means for the same dark ends.

Going over the Banister, Ferrie, Arcacha Smith, Phillips, Hunt shuttling and scuttling, I return to a thesis which occurred to me of late

That as Angleton prepared the patsy with files and false defection and Mexico City and Joannides' DRE and Hunt's CRC helped with the FPCC aspect

Dulles et Bissell et Cabell had insured the infamous debacle of Bay of Pigs would create a body of murderously hateful Cubans ready to slay the traitor Kennedy

and Dallas would be a lovely venue having shown its stuff with Caroline's tricycle, black-bordered posters, mistreating that dangerous macho figure Adlai

I would smell victory when the people say this guy was framed; we got cheated into a war wrapped around our bodies with heavy chain, its deadly anchor in the South China Sea

(and they whined that Bush got them in two wars over WMDsyet uncritically accept a bad shot with a toy gun shooting magic bullets by remote control from a lunchroom dinette, its drone joystick a cheese sandwich, or a Coke)

Frank Zappa would tell his audience, "If your children knew how lame you are, they'd kill you in your beds.

I would gladly settle for the death of innocence