My new book, "Into the Nightmare"

[Jan Klimkowski]

I wrote previously -

Wow I'm really sorry if i am wrong about Tippit being a good shot. But i just listened to Mr McBrides interview about his new book on Black Op radio yesterday and Im almost sure he stated that when he interviewed Tippits father he specifically said that his son was an excellent shot.

But i make no claims about being infallible. Maybe I didn't understand the interview properly. My sincere apologies if i am wrong.
______________________________________________

I just rechecked the the 8/8/2013 interview with Mr. McBride over at Black Op Radio and at approximately the 56:50 mark he does say that Tippits father said his son was a "great" shot.

I make no other claims about Badge man or Tippit being one of the shooters.

Steve, I don't think Jan was questioning the accuracy of your memory so much as the evidence adduced in the book to support his claim. I have still to read this book. I'm sure it contains a lot of interesting and valuable information. As Dawn said, an author is rarely correct about even 75% of the assertions made. In this case, it is impossible to have that level of certainty.

Albert - precisely.

Steve - most researchers during the course of their work uncover evidence which leads them to build a hypothesis which they then test against all the other known facts, information and hypotheses about the event they are exploring. Sometimes, after sharing their hypothesis with others, information which was unknown to the researcher comes to his or her attention, and this information may cause the original working hypothesis to be refined, adapted or even rejected in favour of a new working hypothesis.

This is a good, honest, noble endeavour.

Two steps forward, one step back, represents fine progress.

One of the building blocks of Joseph McBride's work is that the Jack White / Gary Mack Dunkel photographic analysis known as "Badge Man" shows an invidividual wearing a badge firing at JFK, and that this individual is most likely a police officer.

I mourn Jack White and respect his work. However, I do not believe that the "Badge Man" analysis is correct. My own considered judgement is that neither a "badge man" nor a police officer can been seen on the slope as claimed. For me, the "Badge Man" hypothesis is not proven, and is false.

Another building block of Joseph McBride's work is that "Badge Man" was JD Tippit, that Tippit was a "crack shot" and that he blew JFK's brains out:

"The accuracy of that shot that most likely was the one that blew out the back of Kennedy's head attests to the lethal expertise of the gunman who fired it. J. D. Tippit's unusual skill with firearms, from boyhood, was attested to by his father, and it was furthered in his U. S. Army service during World War II and his years with the Dallas Police Department. That expertise could help account for why he may have been chosen for the job of Badge Man....."
(p568, Into the Nightmare)

This is an extraordinary claim and requires extraordinary evidence.

So, for starters, what is the evidence - beyond some hunting stories from Tippit's father - that he was a top class marksman?

Those tasked with organising the military style execution of an American President would surely have recruited world class snipers for a one time only job.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Mr. McBrides interviews at Black Op Radio are top notch.

The info on Tippit is fascinating. Really makes you wish you could access phone records from 1963 to see who JD was calling from the Top Ten Record shop just minutes before his life ended.

The fact that he was a crack shot with a gun also raises some very interesting possibilities.

Steve - please read the thread and Joseph McBride's book carefully.

To my mind, the evidence presented does not establish that Tippit was a good enough marksman to have been entrusted by the Facilitators with a shooting part in the assassination of an American President.

Additionally we all take issue at this point with the entire Badge Man concept, given its origin together with trying to "see" what you want to "see" in the many fuzzy photographs.
That said, a disagreement with an author on one matter does not mean we begin an attack on said author, or that on balance the book does not offer a great amount of valuable contributions.
I wish Tosh would weigh in how how good a shot Tippit was. Another question I can't ask Jay Harrison who knew Tippit well and could tell us what kind of shot he was.
I am also not convinced that the killers would risk having a Dallas cop be a shooter. There are MANY hired guns who could have served this purpose.

Dawn

These are also important and considered challenges to the hypothesis presented in Joseph McBride's work.

[Charles Drago]

So, for starters, what is the evidence - beyond some hunting stories from Tippit's father - that he was a top class marksman?

Those tasked with organising the military style execution of an American President would surely have recruited world class snipers for a one time only job.

Sound reasoning, Jan, reflecting mastery of the study of deep politics.

By no stretch of the imagination can pointing out that Mr. McBride's Tippit-as-Badge-Man argument is uninformed by serious study and understanding of deep politics -- as I have done so often in the past -- reasonably be construed as an "attack" on Mr. McBride.

So with all this in mind, is it not fair to hold suspect the balance of Mr. McBride's book and its author's deep politics-related conclusions proffered therein?

Let me be clear: In this case, "to hold suspect" is not to dismiss, but rather to approach with intensified wariness, including the leveling of a keen eye on sub-text.

Such has been my point from Day One regarding Into the Nightmare.

Is Mr. McBride's Tippit-as-Badge-Man fiasco (my conclusion) an aberration within an otherwise soundly reasoned volume? An exemplar of the majority of his published conclusions?

Draw your own conclusion.

[Tracy Riddle]

The shooters were probably Cuban exiles who had received US military training (one of Bobby's mistakes; some of them would have shot his brother for free) or some imported mercenary/professional snipers (the Gladio stable of fascists, Corsicans, etc.)

You wouldn't use a local cop (unless, of course, you were willing to kill him soon after). But in his later years, I think Tippit was busy full time with a wife and 3 kids, a job as a cop that paid poverty wages (I think $6000 a year was what I read), plus extra jobs on the side. He probably didn't have a lot of time and energy to spend target shooting to keep his skills in top shape. The low wages they paid Dallas police made them good candidates for corruption, though.

I used to work with a guy who was an Army sniper in Vietnam (two tours, proud to have hunted "the most dangerous game.") A total gun nut, talked about them all the time, owned a virtual arsenal. Went target shooting every chance he could. A big library of books and magazines on guns. Not only does this not sound like Tippit, it sounds even less like Oswald.

[Charles Drago]

The shooters were probably Cuban exiles who had received US military training (one of Bobby's mistakes; some of them would have shot his brother for free) or some imported mercenary/professional snipers (the Gladio stable of fascists, Corsicans, etc.) [EMPHASIS ADDED BY DRAGO]

Tracy, while I stand in near-total agreement with what you've written below, I am obliged to note for the record that I find you conclusion as rendered above vis a vis Cuban exiles to be as flawed and, to the best of my knowledge, indefensible as McBride's Tippit-as-Badge-Man argument. Also, I must indicate my problem with your either/or stricture.

To be precise, I take issue with the words "probably" and "or".

I eagerly anticipate reading what I have every reason to expect will be a typically thoughtful, reasoned defense of your Cuban exiles argument.

In the meantime, I would remind you of the potential for disaster when the either/or mindset is applied to the study of deep political events. Solely for example, please tell us why the shooter teams could not have been comprised of Cuban exiles AND mercenary/professional snipers.


I'm happy to reproduce the balance of your post now, insofar as I find it to be insightful and informative.

You wouldn't use a local cop (unless, of course, you were willing to kill him soon after). But in his later years, I think Tippit was busy full time with a wife and 3 kids, a job as a cop that paid poverty wages (I think $6000 a year was what I read), plus extra jobs on the side. He probably didn't have a lot of time and energy to spend target shooting to keep his skills in top shape. The low wages they paid Dallas police made them good candidates for corruption, though.

I used to work with a guy who was an Army sniper in Vietnam (two tours, proud to have hunted "the most dangerous game.") A total gun nut, talked about them all the time, owned a virtual arsenal. Went target shooting every chance he could. A big library of books and magazines on guns. Not only does this not sound like Tippit, it sounds even less like Oswald.

[Steve Minnerly]

Thanks to all.

No offense taken and none directed at anybody by me. And yeah i have a lot to learn even after reading up on the jfk assassination for a while.

And Albert im gonna get that private message off to you concerning our interesting off topic conversation. Just a bunch of stuff happening on this end thats kept me busy.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Thanks to all.

No offense taken and none directed at anybody by me. And yeah i have a lot to learn even after reading up on the jfk assassination for a while.

Steve - thank you for your gracious response.

Our shared endeavours are noble and, ahem, fiendishly complex.

:happydrinks:

[Tracy Riddle]

Charles, I wouldn't read too much into my often hastily-typed posts. Yes, I should have said "and" rather than "or." Cuban exiles have always been high on my suspect list, at the lowest level of dirty work, because of people like Homer Echeverria ranting to an informant "as soon as we take care of Kennedy," or Nestor Castellanos being recorded saying "We're going to give him the works when he gets in Dallas. Mr. good ol' Kennedy. I wouldn't even call him President Kennedy."

They probably had their pick of exiles volunteering for the job, and then later those involved could be easily disposed of in a botched raid on Cuba, or say that "Castro agents" put a hatchet in someone's head. They were easily-manipulated patsies, like Oswald.

At least I didn't include Johnny Roselli in the storm drain and Jim Braden in the Dal-Tex Bldg.

[David Josephs]

With the greatest respect for Jack White... Wanting to see it does not change the physics of shadow and light.

One of the easiest ways to determine if "Badge" and "Hardhat" men (and GA) are there is to ask yourself about the shadows...

Is it possible for objects in deep shadow to REFLECT LIGHT to the camera lens...? or is more realistic the "light" areas are instead the sky's light coming thru the trees?

The yellow lines represent the angle of the sun... neither the bright spots on GA (which again are impossible if this is a solid object) or what would be considered the "badge" and "shoulder patch" are impossibly lit.

Add now the size problems, distance problems and the reailty of where the witnesses actually placed a knoll shooter... and we are back to that location NOT being where a shot was fired...

To tie it all up in a knot... there was no late entry of a uniformed police officer to the fence...
Tippit was on the 4100 block of Bonnieview at Keist at 12:20...
JFK was scheduled to be at the Trade Mart at 12:15 but was running late...

McBride and anyone else claiming Tippit was in DP at 12:30, especially on the GK as the Badgeman... has quite a lot of existing evidence to address...

While I'm not a fan of McAdam's site... this updated article from Bill Drenas offers evidence that virtually precludes Tippit from being in DP at all....
Let alone be the impossibe photo artifact that is actually leaves and sky known as Badgeman.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm
Shortly after publishing this article Irish researcher Chris
Scally sent me a letter he received from the late Larry Harris in 1984 that
contained information about the [URL="https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/markout3.gif"]4100 Bonnie View
call[/URL]. Larry wrote "In 1978 I interviewed the manager of a grocery market at
4121 Bonnie View; He told me that during the noon hour on 11/22/63, he caught a
woman shoplifter and phoned the police; it was Tippit who responded. The store
manager knew Tippit because it was almost invariably Tippit who responded to
calls for shoplifters. The manager told me that Tippit placed the woman in the
squad car and left. So indeed Tippit was on an investigation at 12:17 P.M.
nevertheless, it is disturbing and perhaps significant that this incident is not
reflected more substantially in the tapes or transcripts."


Larry Harris's investigator Ken M. Holmes Jr confirms this story. In 1963
Hodges Super Market occupied 4121 Bonnie View Road
(1963 Dallas City Directory). On my last trip to Dallas in November of 1997 the
small shopping plaza that contained this store was vacant with for sale signs on
it.
Who this shoplifter was, what happened to her, how Tippit was really alerted
to this location and what impact this could have had on the events that follow
are still not known. This story has confirmation from the grocer who was a known
and interviewed eyewitness, where as the story from Investigation of a
Homicide' that was previously reported in the original article has never been
confirmed.




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Now, AND JUST FOR SH!TS AND GIGGLES... I "discovered" this person kneeling in front of the retaining wall... I "CREATED HIM" to illustrate to those who doubt, pulling images from light and shadow is not hard...

a little corroborating evidence always comes in handy... Charles is correct in his insistence that there be some examination of the actual evidence regarding Tippit... at least enough to rule out he was anywhere else at the time.

DJ

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[David Josephs]

Charles, I wouldn't read too much into my often hastily-typed posts. Yes, I should have said "and" rather than "or." Cuban exiles have always been high on my suspect list, at the lowest level of dirty work, because of people like Homer Echeverria ranting to an informant "as soon as we take care of Kennedy," or Nestor Castellanos being recorded saying "We're going to give him the works when he gets in Dallas. Mr. good ol' Kennedy. I wouldn't even call him President Kennedy."

They probably had their pick of exiles volunteering for the job, and then later those involved could be easily disposed of in a botched raid on Cuba, or say that "Castro agents" put a hatchet in someone's head. They were easily-manipulated patsies, like Oswald.

At least I didn't include Johnny Roselli in the storm drain and Jim Braden in the Dal-Tex Bldg.

I just have to jump in on that comment.... "At Least...." ??

The description from those that have seen a DIFFERENT but more complete ZAPRUDER FILM is that JFK literally raises up in his seat when he was hit in the head...
The Dallas sewers were looked at and mapped.
Roselli and Braden were involved and Braden was there in DP.

I think there is much more in the way of evidence suggesting a shot was (or could have been) fired from "A" sewer location in DP, than there is for Tippit being on the GK and being Badgeman.

Cuban "talk" of the hit sounds like only so much machismo among criminals. Mad italians said the same thing.... as did angry SS agents, disgruntled FBI men and MOST of the senior brass of the US Military...
Add to this the # of private citizens in a position to affect policy and bankroll a hit and we have a whole slew of people "Gonna get him" or "we got him"....

Echeverria's comment comes THIRD HAND... and even THAT allegedly:

2-1-266 (an informant) advised that he HEARD (from who?) that MOSLEY ALLEGEDLY was talking with Homer, and that HOMER ALLEGEDLY made a comment...

and THIS becomes the basis for a terrible book by Piper, and "proof" that Cubans were involved ????

Please.

As I've said before and will say again... Cubans, CIA, SS, FBI, etc... are all convenient scapegoats for the USMilitary... the ONLY body having the power, reach, personnel and desire to handle it all.


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