Any merit to Simkins "suite 8F" theory ?

[Steve Minnerly]

So you guys think im here to sow doubt and disrupt the forum ?

Thats interesting cause i was over at Salon ranting against Sunstein and his beliefs.

Youre overeacting. I didnt say anything terrible here.

Steve - I don't believe you're here to sow doubt and disrupt the forum. But please consider my post above, which was posted respectfully.

Please also note there is extreme distrust and antipathy towards the Education Forum amongst the Founders and many senior members here at DPF.

I dont know if its possible for others to look at my posting hiztory here but one of the first posts i made was a statement about how i had tried to join the EF but never got a response from Simkin.

So no ive never had any association with them other than sending simkin 2 emails and never getting a response to either.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Indeed, the Mob murdered Kennedy is simply a variant of the LN theory.

As I used to argue with Bob Harris, what is the "Mob" anyway? It isn't just Italians in sharp suits like in the Godfather films. Anyone who has studied organized crime knows that it is completely intertwined with big business, the intelligence community, the military, government at all levels, Wall St, organized religion, money laundering, you name it. I guess you could say "they're all in it together." Which is why it's really pointless to fight with each other about these artificial distinctions.

Tracy - I respect your posts and your thinking.

I respectfully disagree that this is an artificial distinction.

I believe it is a fundamental distinction.

Unless you think the Irish Mob came to Supreme Power when Joe Kennedy's brat became POTUS.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Yes, there are a lot of people who need to tolerate disagreement a little more. This is not a church.

Damn right.

DPF is not a Church.

But first base yarns, fairy tales worthy of Tom Hanks, need shredding - forensically, meticulously, ruthlessly.

And quickly.

Time spent on them is time wasted.

Casolaro called it The Octopus.

Horne calls it The Unspeakable.

It corrodes Suite 8F every time it belches.

It wraps the Mob around a glistening tentacle and laughs hysterically...

[Charles Drago]

Okay.

First things first: When we reach the point that mine is among the voices of reason when it comes to hostile penetrations of Internet forums ... well, let's just say that that ain't a very happy place.

Steve Minnerly: I haven't the slightest reason to suspect you of being among the agents provocateur who have attempted to disrupt DPF over the years. Some have been discovered and dispatched. Others remain invisible under deep cover. And a few whose hostile missions are obvious to a minority of DPF ownership retain their posting privileges here. For now.

You have a great deal to learn about deep politics and deep political analysis. But I suspect that you've come here to learn, and your struggles to do so remind me of my own nascent, clumsy explorations of the killing fields and how a brilliant, gentle, almost absurdly patient master farmer found a way to teach me almost everything I know about planting and harvesting and bringing to market our humble crops.

Jan is correct to note that any mention, positive or otherwise, of John Simkin and the Swamp -- a/k/a the "Education" Forum -- will provoke outrage among those of us who were wronged by the Sunsteinian manipulators of that site. A lot of the antipathy currently being directed at you has its origins in this terrible history.

R. K. Locke: You offer wisdom, and your words are worth repeating:


My advice to the newcomer would be:

Learn as quickly as possible how to distinguish disinformation from useful data (i.e. turn your bullshit detector up to 10.)

Apply simple logic to all claims. (This will take you a long way; though perhaps not all the way.)

Make use of the Sponsor-Facilitator-Mechanic model.

Choose your words carefully.

Read and cross-reference.

Absorb the hard-earned wisdom and insights of those that have come before us.

Never stop learning.


Steve Minnerly: The bottom line -- at least for me: Good and decent people have been at war with the killers of JFK for nearly 50 years. We have learned so much about how the world really works. We have discovered and shared many truths. The war continues.

But we have not come close to defining, let alone bringing about justice for JFK and for those collaterally damaged when the conspirators struck. The Sponsors of the assassination yet escape justice, and as the bells mournfully toll on November 22, 2013, they will raise their glasses in the comfort engendered by the certain knowledge that the bells toll not for them.

Under these circumstances, I trust that you will forgive us our rage and suspicions.

Stay. Learn.

[Tracy Riddle]

I believe it is a fundamental distinction.

Unless you think the Irish Mob came to Supreme Power when Joe Kennedy's brat became POTUS.

Jan, I don't understand your point. There has never been any faction within the System that has held Supreme Power. There has never been a "Mr. Big" or one group permanently dominating all the others. It is a loosely-affiliated network of elite groups and families. Like warlords in feudal Japan, sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they fight with each other.

I don't think any of us here are naive enough to believe that the Kennedy brothers were Boy Scouts who never told a lie or did anything wrong. Their old man was not a nice guy, and they were raised within the elite circles. Jack and Bobby matured and grew as the years went by, their eyes were opened, and they gradually became "class traitors." Ted learned to play the game and stayed alive.

[Jan Klimkowski]

I believe it is a fundamental distinction.

Unless you think the Irish Mob came to Supreme Power when Joe Kennedy's brat became POTUS.

Jan, I don't understand your point. There has never been any faction within the System that has held Supreme Power. There has never been a "Mr. Big" or one group permanently dominating all the others. It is a loosely-affiliated network of elite groups and families. Like warlords in feudal Japan, sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they fight with each other.

Tracy - Carlos Marcello could no more have flown the cabinet out of the country and engineered the Warren Commission than his son could have initiated Continuity Of Government (COG) mechanisms on the day the Twin Towers were struck.

I don't think any of us here are naive enough to believe that the Kennedy brothers were Boy Scouts who never told a lie or did anything wrong. Their old man was not a nice guy, and they were raised within the elite circles. Jack and Bobby matured and grew as the years went by, their eyes were opened, and they gradually became "class traitors." Ted learned to play the game and stayed alive.

Yes - the deep political truth of recent research into the actions and beliefs of John Fitzgerald Kennedy in the last year of his Presidency reveal him to be a traitor to the class into which he was born.

So his class slaughtered him, in public.

[Marlene Zenker]

I believe it is a fundamental distinction.

Unless you think the Irish Mob came to Supreme Power when Joe Kennedy's brat became POTUS.

Jan, I don't understand your point. There has never been any faction within the System that has held Supreme Power. There has never been a "Mr. Big" or one group permanently dominating all the others. It is a loosely-affiliated network of elite groups and families. Like warlords in feudal Japan, sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they fight with each other.

I don't think any of us here are naive enough to believe that the Kennedy brothers were Boy Scouts who never told a lie or did anything wrong. Their old man was not a nice guy, and they were raised within the elite circles. Jack and Bobby matured and grew as the years went by, their eyes were opened, and they gradually became "class traitors." Ted learned to play the game and stayed alive.

I think the most significant quality of Jack and Bobby was that they were willing to listen and to learn. They were not so egotistical as to think that they knew everything and were right about everything. That quality is hard enough to find in us regular people let alone political leaders.

[Charles Drago]

I think the most significant quality of Jack and Bobby was that they were willing to listen and to learn.

Agreed. As far as it goes.

But beyond willful and perhaps, by implication, cynical acts, there remain issues relating to spiritual growth that comes at times unbidden.

To claim, as some do, that JFK was enlightened from a very early age is to demean JFK and his progress along a spiritual path.

[Jim DiEugenio]

"Horne calls it The Unspeakable."


Jim Douglass called it The Unspeakable. I am still trying to figure out what Horne's last chapter was about. Besides being in love with the sound of his own voice

By the way, to find out who JFK was, and just how he had broken with the Power Elite, take a look at a completely ignored book called Betting on the Africans. Its been completely ignored. And I can understand why. It takes up where the all important JFK:Ordeal in Africa leaves off.

Try and imagine Ike, Nixon or LBJ doing anything like what is outlined in this book for the Third World.

[Tracy Riddle]

I believe it is a fundamental distinction.

Unless you think the Irish Mob came to Supreme Power when Joe Kennedy's brat became POTUS.

Jan, I don't understand your point. There has never been any faction within the System that has held Supreme Power. There has never been a "Mr. Big" or one group permanently dominating all the others. It is a loosely-affiliated network of elite groups and families. Like warlords in feudal Japan, sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they fight with each other.

Tracy - Carlos Marcello could no more have flown the cabinet out of the country and engineered the Warren Commission than his son could have initiated Continuity Of Government (COG) mechanisms on the day the Twin Towers were struck.

Yes, but my point was that mobsters like Marcello are part of the system, linked to all the groups I listed above. The people who say "the mob did it" are insisting on a false separation between organized crime and the rest of society.