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Sean Murphy's research deserves more
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17-12-2013, 11:18 PM
PM and Lovelady can be seen together in a few Wiegman frames. I've marked PM with A, Lovelady with B.
Granted, the image of PM is vague and dark. [ATTACH=CONFIG]5578[/ATTACH]
18-12-2013, 12:34 AM
It's all based on the angles from the camera....
In the color version it is obvious that LOVELADY is the man with the white T and open shirt, but he is NOT next to that black man as we see from the following frame grab.... We know that Johnson takes the Dr Pepper bottle... have we been able to determine if anyone took the bottle in the corner and whether it was a COKE... At some point after passing Reid, Oswald gets rid of the Coke bottle... My attempt at seeing how OSWALD might be Prayerman, below... [ATTACH=CONFIG]5579[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]5581[/ATTACH]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
18-12-2013, 03:35 PM
Okay I got it now, thanks a lot, Wiegman indeed shows a man forward of PM that can only be Lovelady.
Think it's likely that BL was purposely leaving a space for people to pass down the steps(Hughes) until the last second before using that space to wave(Towner)? ![[Image: oa2.gif]](http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4359/oa2.gif) As seen above he is now blocking anyone coming in or out. Perhaps he just stepped back west afterwards into the same spot to make room for peopkle heading back in? The black man who was on a lower step could be the one who walks to the island and grabs ahold of the post in Couch/Darnell. I'm still having trouble seeing BL on the eastern half of steps but granted he's clearly over there a couple minutes later so above is just an alternative and either way my query was answered. I just noticed. The man who went back to the TSBD steps with Lovelady in 1971 to take some snaps allegedly saw a rifle in the window on the day of the hit. Yet on that day, when he was needed, he refused to go anywhere near the building, or take a picture, or point anyone in that direction. Well, at least he got there in the end.
18-12-2013, 11:15 PM
Albert Doyle Wrote:In my opinion it is ridiculous to suggest Oswald was out front having lunch with Bill Shelley during the assassination and no one noticed him or gave testimony. I do believe Mr Doyle nailed it regarding the notes made by Will Fritz. Those notes, IMO, are just partial reminders of what he heard. ::doh:: Larry StudentofAssassinationResearch
19-12-2013, 06:17 AM
That' some really good work by David above.
As time goes on, I see less and less credibility to the arguments against Sean's work. They just don't seem very strong to me. On the other hand, Sean has really worked out the subtle nuances to his ideas very carefully and thoroughly. I mean he has made Gary Mack's objections look pretty futile and desperate.
19-12-2013, 03:43 PM
LR Trotter Wrote:I do believe Mr Doyle nailed it regarding the notes made by Will Fritz. Those notes, IMO, are just partial reminders of what he heard. It would make sense since Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom. For me it doesn't go past Mrs Arnold seeing Oswald at 12:25 and officer Baker seeing him at 12:31.5 He was obviously in the lunchroom in between. Oswald was trained at interrogation as the gibberish he told the FBI upon arrest in New Orleans proves.
19-12-2013, 06:26 PM
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:That' some really good work by David above. "Gary Mack's objections look pretty futile and desperate" = the ultimate oxymoron ::evilpenguin:: Thanks Jim. What concerns me though about the PM=Oswald theory is that this person just kinda hangs a round a while... as people file past the person as they go back into the TSBD or hover out front... Could someone please direct me to the photo supposedly showing Oswald under the sign as he was coming down from the TSBD... Is it what I posted below? Not trying to derail, yet the person walking past Mrs Reid could not have been this person... although she is pretty sure it was OSWALD Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt? Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on. Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen anyone working at the book depository wearing any kind of a shirt or jacket similar to Commission Exhibit 150 (http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc..._0270a.htm) or do you know? Mrs. REID. No; I do not. I have never, so far as I know ever seen that shirt. I have been asked about that shirt before, I have seen it once before but not since all this happened The Bottle in that corner could have been from THIS person (LEE imho) unless HARVEY too got a coke... either way that bottle has to come to rest somewhere... and could have LEE's fingerprints as opposed to HARVEY... but we'll never know I guess... DJ Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think anything else Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it. Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him? Mr. CRAIG - No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful hurry. Mr. BELIN - What about the man who was driving the car? Mr. CRAIG - Now, he struck me, at first, as being a colored male. He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket---uh, it looked like the short windbreaker type, you know, because it was real thin and had the collar that came out over the shoulder (indicating with hands) like that--just a short jacket. This could easily be the found Jacket after they drop this man off by Ruby's apartment before he walks WEST to the Tippit scene.. Sorry for the extra speculation... just free thinking here DJ [ATTACH=CONFIG]5591[/ATTACH]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
19-12-2013, 10:53 PM
Reid was one of those who went back in the building after she knew shots came from there, with the shooter still at large?
Back to work? To those who are attempting to seperate the wheat from chaff in this area I would suggest that her account would be a good candidate for the pile. Did you catch anything by Pierce Allman recently? Another one who alledgedly ran into Oswald. Sorry about this but this has to be seen to be believed. This was another actual witness in the case, a professionaly trained observer. Please be careful. http://globalnews.ca/video/982753/radio-...assination Regarding PM hanging around also David, Darnell is apparently only twenty seconds plus after "the last shot", for all we know this man could have followed the cop inside simply out of curiousity, like Truly did. Then Baker caught him spying on him, or not...
20-12-2013, 01:20 AM
Donald Manning Wrote:Reid was one of those who went back in the building after she knew shots came from there, with the shooter still at large? Donald, one of the more amazing things about the first 20 minutes after the shots was the number of DPD telling workers it was okay to go back into the TSBD.. and those that stood there allowing it... both front and back doors. MANY MANY people went back into the building.... Now, what does YOU BELIEVING her going back into the building is a LIE, have to do with the credibility of what she see's once she's there, if you are dead wrong to begin with? And why is it you can post conclusions - CALLING SOMEONE A LIAR - without even doing the most simply of checking? As you say, "please be careful" Those that post without sources - especially HERE where we know our stuff - and then do so with a touch of sarcasm as if THEY know something others dont... Bitching about what witnesses and OTHERS say and do when you can't even present yourself with some integrity and honesty speaks volumes. Talk about a pile :  htf::In Darnell, people are heading back up the stairs... and into the building... below are a few examples of these people telling us they went back into the building with and without DPD around... took all of 10 minutes to find them.... Shall we keep playing this game Donald? [ATTACH=CONFIG]5592[/ATTACH] [TABLE="width: 623"] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Adams, Victoria Elisabeth[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Arce, Danny Garcia[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony, Affidavit.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Baker, Mrs. Donald (AKA Virgie Rachley)[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony, FBI Report[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Burns, Doris[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Cason, Jack Charles[/TD] [TD="align: left"]Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Caster, Warren[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Dougherty, Jack Edwin[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony, Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Frazier, Buell Wesley[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony 1, 2, Affidavit, Shaw trial testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Givens, Charles Douglas[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony, Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Hine, Geneva L.[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Jarman, James Earl Jr.[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony, Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Kaiser, Frankie[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Lovelady, Billy Nolan[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Molina, Joe R.[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Norman, Harold[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony, 12/4/63 Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Pinkston, Nat A.[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Piper, Eddie[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony1, 2, 11/23/63 Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Reid, Mrs. Robert A.[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Shelley, William H.[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony 1, 2[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Shields, Edward[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Truly, Roy Sansom[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony1, 2, Affidavit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]West, Troy Eugene[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Williams, Bonnie Ray[/TD] [TD="align: left"]WC Testimony[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?" And she said, "I don't know." And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot. There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to l[B]isten to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window,[/B] and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor. Mr. BELIN - Did they say second floor or second floor from the top? Miss ADAMS - It said second floor. So then I decided maybe I had better go back into the building, and going up the stairs--- Mr. BELIN - Now at this time when you went back into the building, were there any policemen standing in front of the building keeping people out? Miss ADAMS - There was an officer on the stairs itself, and he was prohibiting people from entering the building, that is correct. But I told him I worked there. Mr. BELIN - Did he let you come back in? Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you look back at the building? Mr. ARCE. No, I didn't think they came from there. I just looked directly to the railroad tracks and all the people started running up there and I just ran along with them. Mr. BALL. Did you go up to the railroad tracks? Mr. ARCE. Yeah. Mr. BALL. Did you see anything up there? Mr. ARCE. No, and t[B]hey told us go back there and I went back inside the building[/B] Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you? Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Mr. BALL - And police officers came in there? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I would say by the time, you know some of us went back in, and it wasn't just a few minutes, I say there were several. Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the first floor? Mr. FRAZIER - Well, stayed on the first floor there for a few minutes and I hadn't eaten my lunch so I had my lunch down there in the basement and I went down there to get my lunch and eat it and I walked back up on the first floor there. Mr. BALL - When you came back into the Building, you came in the front door, didn't you? Mr. FRAZIER - Right Mr. BALL. When you came back in did you see Mrs. Reid? Miss HINE. No, sir; I don't believe there was a soul in the office when I came back in right then. Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody else go in through there? Miss HINE. No, sir; after I answered the telephone then there was about four or five people that came in. Mr. BALL. Was there anybody in that room when you came back in and went to the telephone? Miss HINE. No, sir; not to my knowledge. Mr. BALL. Did you see Mrs. Reid come back in? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I think I felt sure that I did. I thought that there were five or six that came in together. I thought she was one of those Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do? Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building. Eddie Piper Affidavit: It was about 1:00 PM when the police made us vacate the building and as we were being checked out
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
20-12-2013, 09:02 PM
David you really misunderstood my point so I apologise for not making it just that little bit clearer and as a result wasting your time.
Tracy said it best earlier in the thread; Quote:It was either Meagher or Weisberg who first pointed out that not one of the TSBD employees was afraid of returning to the building, or acted like the shots came from their workplace. Some of the female employees would later tell the WC that they thought the shots came from the TSBD, but also said that they went right back to their offices. Oh really? Does that sound believable? In the office building where I work, if the President was shot right outside and anyone suspected the shooter was in our building, NO ONE would be going back in to possibly encounter a madman with a gun. Sure a few went immeadiatly back inside to work but not after hearing unmistakable gunfire from anywhere, let alone their own building. That's the crock. As btw is Allman, 100% COS. |
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