Has Lifton Cracked The Case?

[Albert Doyle]

If you watch the last 12 minutes or so of David Lifton's Bismark speech you'll see he says he's coming close to evidence for the body removal on Air Force One. Combine this with the Clifton Tape and you can see what they were planning:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3huHUs6yDw

[Dawn Meredith]

If you watch the last 12 minutes or so of David Lifton's Bismark speech you'll see he says he's coming close to evidence for the body removal on Air Force One. Combine this with the Clifton Tape and you can see what they were planning:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3huHUs6yDw

Don't know that I can take an hour of DL. Is this new evidence?

Dawn

[Albert Doyle]

In the last 12 minutes or so he says he has discovered evidence of Kellerman, Burkley, and Johnson having suspicious blood on their shirts that he alleges occurred when they hoisted JFK out of the bronze show casket and into the cargo bay of Air Force One. Sounds plausible to me since Lifton discovered them making excuses for it. He also says he has evidence of the cargo bay needing a wash out afterwards.

I wonder if Lifton can find photos of these people before they got on Air Force One showing them without any blood on their shirts?

[Drew Phipps]

Kellerman testified to the Warren Commission that he had blood on his clothing from the fatal shot. But he didn't mention the exact location. You might expect a blood spatter from the rear to have a different pattern marking the clothes than handling a body from the front. But he also assisted in placing Kennedy on the stretcher. He also said that he reacted before the fatal shot, but I don't see any reaction from him at all until after. (He leans forward breifly before the fatal shot but that doesn't seem to be a reaction.)

Greer, on the other hand, definitely looks back in reaction to what has happened immediately prior to the fatal shot

[Albert Doyle]

If you go to 48:20 Lifton says the front of Kellerman's shirt was drenched in blood. How can it be drenched in blood when everything in the limousine happened behind him and he was slumping forward?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3huHUs6yDw



.

[Drew Phipps]

Kellerman was wearing a coat during the assassination. Clint Hill's coat was used to cover the President at Parkland, so Kellerman had his coat on at that point, while assisting to get Kennedy on the stretcher. Does the "drenched" area include areas which should have been covered by the coat? Specifically look for blood on the upper arms, and under the arm area on each side of the torso, which would have been protected by the coat.

"Drenched" is fairly ambiguous and subjective. Do we have other descriptions? I have also heard that there are photos taken by reporters of the removal of Kennedy from the car. If anyone has any information about that, it will certainly assist us here.

[Albert Doyle]

I assume Lifton is seeking to answer all those questions in his upcoming book Final Charade.

[Albert Doyle]

I'm wondering what happened to Final Charade​?

[Malcolm John]

Hello

Sorry if I am taking this on a bit of a tangent. I am extremely interested in this, really just the last few years been becoming more and more obsessed really. I have joined here mainly for the JFK forum as its the best and most informed one I can find on the whole internet, but people here seem to be way further on than me in their understanding and knowledge of the event, so can I ask a question, do people here and in the research community in general believe the driver William Greer was an active participant?

All the talk of slowing the car perhaps to a stop, seemed to be acting in response to the dark complected man with the clenched fist giving the signal to stop the car there, and not speeding up or swerving, looking back at JFK till he was fatally hit then accelerating away, its all so suspicious, so is the general consensus that he was part of the plot and was he ever interviewed by the WC or HSCA or Rockerfeller?

Obviously people are alleging here that Kellerman was in on it, so surely Greer was too?


If this is better moved to another thread please feel free mods.

[Drew Phipps]

IIRC Greer did testify in the Warren Commission but not the HSCA. He died in the mid 80's. I, for one, have a hard time believing that the Secret Service agents in the kill zone were part of any pre-assassination plot. I certainly don't believe that they turned around in 1/18 of a second and shot JFK, which is what some folks see in the Zapruder film. To my mind, their abrupt movements speak more to the tampering of the film than anything else.