Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say?

[Peter Lemkin]

At the heart of this thread is that there would be no way for the DPD to have known to position their Detective and the cutout unless they were aware of the 133-C pose before 11/29.

One of the negatives is lost with no explanation.
1st generation photos (supposedly) are found which means they came from a negative - yet another missing negative.

Stovall - one of the men doing the Paine search, and White a photographic expert who just started at the DPD in Oct 63 and quits to work for Page Drug store... http://www.baylor.edu/lib/poage/shaw/index.php?id=85336

While Herbert was also correct about the impossbility of wear marks being "exactly the same" the simply conclusion that these images existed prior to the assassination is fairly easy to prove using basic common sense.

You can't do a perfect cut-out of an image in 1963, if the image is supposedly unknown until 1977.

Peter Dale Scott has, among others, pointed out how a group within the DPD were connected with a National birthing of what evolved into COG, before called Rex-84 under Raygun, and unknown what it was called other than, generally, 'National Emergency Communications System' in 1963. I believe it was this network in DPD and some pals of theirs in Mil. Intel. in the Dallas area who were tasked with 'boots on the ground' for the big muck-a-mucks in DC, NYC, Miami, and elsewhere to do the 'hit'. It was the DPD intel division, I believe who cooked up the BYPs - sans Marina or Oswald [they were not in the picture - in pun form nor in real form]. So, they had the negatives and photos and knew all the variations, including some that have not yet become public - and could even create new ones at will. They know which positions their stand-in had made in the backyard. They had backyard [only] shots - from a camera on a tripod, and they had the model in various poses. The rest is child's play. They were salted around as needed, with a few trophy shots held by, for example, White and found by his ex. We have discussed this in a former thread on the BYPs. What is new are the Z and S name-doppelgangers; how do they fit into the mystery of the BYPs - if they indeed do? Sure would like to find that executive committee testimony, but if it followed the usual patterns of questioning, they'd have avoided getting to any questions which might evoke answers showing a conspiracy and a scenario other than the one they were given to paint.

[Peter Lemkin]

At the heart of this thread is that there would be no way for the DPD to have known to position their Detective and the cutout unless they were aware of the 133-C pose before 11/29.

One of the negatives is lost with no explanation.
1st generation photos (supposedly) are found which means they came from a negative - yet another missing negative.

Stovall - one of the men doing the Paine search, and White a photographic expert who just started at the DPD in Oct 63 and quits to work for Page Drug store... http://www.baylor.edu/lib/poage/shaw/index.php?id=85336

While Herbert was also correct about the impossbility of wear marks being "exactly the same" the simply conclusion that these images existed prior to the assassination is fairly easy to prove using basic common sense.

You can't do a perfect cut-out of an image in 1963, if the image is supposedly unknown until 1977.

Peter Dale Scott has, among others, pointed out how a group within the DPD were connected with a National birthing of what evolved into COG, before called Rex-84 under Raygun, and unknown what it was called other than, generally, 'National Emergency Communications System' in 1963. I believe it was this network in DPD and some pals of theirs in Mil. Intel. in the Dallas area who were tasked with 'boots on the ground' for the big muck-a-mucks in DC, NYC, Miami, and elsewhere to do the 'hit'. It was the DPD intel division, I believe who cooked up the BYPs - sans Marina or Oswald [they were not in the picture - in pun form nor in real form]. So, they had the negatives and photos and knew all the variations, including some that have not yet become public - and could even create new ones at will. They know which positions their stand-in had made in the backyard. They had backyard [only] shots - from a camera on a tripod, and they had the model in various poses. The rest is child's play. They were salted around as needed, with a few trophy shots held by, for example, White and found by his ex. We have discussed this in a former thread on the BYPs. What is new are the Z and S name-doppelgangers; how do they fit into the mystery of the BYPs - if they indeed do? Sure would like to find that executive committee testimony, but if it followed the usual patterns of questioning, they'd have avoided getting to any questions which might evoke answers showing a conspiracy and a scenario other than the one they were given to paint.

Not only are Roscoe White's activities and dates of service - what he did before and happened after DPD service strange, if not outright suspicious, I talked about two decades back with someone who worked in DPD records division and whouldn'tyaknowit White's employment files are missing and no card says to where they had gone......surprise! surprise!

White knew some of those being connected to JM/WAVE and its anti-Cuba/Castro attacks and had had intelligence training. Jack White [no relation] long ago (as have many others) even felt it likely that R. White was the model for the poses. I found some evidence he (R. White) may have also done the photo work - rather poorly, one might add - but it 'did the trick' for the false-flag scenario dragged out and branded with the stamp of authority by WC and CIA-controlled media, etc.

[I forgot to add, above, that that National Emergency Communications Network was supplied with high-tech and secret equipment by none other than Collins Radio..which prominently plays a role in the Guns of Dallas and some of those who participated.]

[Peter Lemkin]

Hmmm....there were at least TWO executive sessions about the negatives for the BYP's

Testimony of Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, September 1, 1963, 15 Warren Commission
hearings, 693 ; but see also Rose testimony, ref. 126 (Dallas police found
two negatives that showed Oswald holding a rifle in his hand, wearing a pistol at
his hip) ;

1] executive session testimony of R. L. Studebaker, October 5, 1978, House
Select Committee on Assassinations (J .F.K . Document No. 014695) ;

2] executive session testimony of John Grizzaffi, October 5, 1978, House Select Committee on
Assassinations (J .F.K. Document No. 014699) .

[Drew Phipps]

I found just this tidbit of testimony about grizzaffi in the WC records.


sorry I can't make it bigger or copy the text.

[Herbert Blenner]

Cause by default Herbert, the writing on the back of a photo dates it precisely? LOL

I think that either way the DPD is lookin gpretty foolish at this point. Missing photos, missing negatives and now hidden images.

It all spells foreknowledge of these images and them having nothing to do with Marina.

Evidence #46 belonged to the items sent by the DPD to the FBI. This convention dates the subject evidence as late November of 1963.

I include a list of other items from this sequence.

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #48, negative number 91-001/107, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan
Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #48, negative number 91-001/108, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan
Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #48, negative number 91-001/109, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. FBI items evidence #50, negative number 91-001/143, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan
Negative, by an unknown author. FBI evidence #50, negative number 91-001/104, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Folder, by an unknown author. Original folder for evidence #54: photograph of Marina Oswald and identification card for Lee Harvey Oswald. Note inside indicates negative missing 6/26/79. Negative found 2/15/92 by Cindy Smolovik, archivist City of Dallas, (Original), date unknown. Page 1 Page 2

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/41/4101-001.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/41/4101-002.gif

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #59, negative number 91-001/132, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence # 60, negative number 91-001/133, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #61 - Back of Tokyo card and back of Selective Service card, negative number 91-001/154, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #63, negative number 91-001/135, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #66 - composite includes two poses with the gun, Marina with a baby and couple sitting at a table, negative number 91-001/159, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #67, negative number 91-001/328, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

Negative, by an unknown author. Evidence #68, negative number 91-001/160, (Original), see boxes 11-12. no scan

[David Josephs]

Which "convention" Herbert...

I see no dates related to these OTHER photos... please help me understand.

[Herbert Blenner]

Which "convention" Herbert...

I see no dates related to these OTHER photos... please help me understand.

Are you too dense to understand a counting sequence?

Evidence #46 was labeled before Evidence # 48 through Evidence # 68. These higher numbered items were sent to the FBI within days of the assassination.

So the DPD have the subject photo, Evidence #46, in their possession within days of the assassination.

[David Josephs]

Which "convention" Herbert...

I see no dates related to these OTHER photos... please help me understand.

Are you too dense to understand a counting sequence?

Evidence #46 was labeled before Evidence # 48 through Evidence # 68. These higher numbered items were sent to the FBI within days of the assassination.

So the DPD have the subject photo, Evidence #46, in their possession within days of the assassination.

There's the sweet man I used to read here... ::


Herbert, are you of the opinion that the evidence and records of this assassination, especially of the FBI and DPD, is worth the ink they're written with?

You have a photocopy of an image which was not seen as a 1st gen image until 1977...
When were these images digitized HB?
Are you claiming that a numbering convention is PROOF that a photo was placed in a file at a certain time?

In Mexico City the FBI said that OSWALD entered and left Mexico because the stamp of a man who worked during the time Ozzie supposedly crossed the border has his stamp on yet another document, the Tourist Visa.

A stamp on a piece of paper, none of which can be authenticated or corroborated. In fact the man whose name it is states to the FBI that OIswald arrived in a car with 2 women and a male driver... Mr. Maydon (Mexican INS who stamped the visa) .

From my study of the Mexico Trip's and the FBI's creation of evidence, then changing their minds when THAT evidence doesn;'t work to NEW evidence... and even THAT offeres no corrorobation or authentication.

But hey, if a few numbers on a piece of paper is good enough for you... so be it.

Get to the heart of it HB... With only 2 poses in evidence and one negative, the DPD produces an image and a cutout of this 133-C pose which is not made aware to anyone and then we come to find that White and Stoval have prints of said pose and image.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove...?? that this picture existed and Marina took it with the other two? That it did not come out as good as the others so it was hidden away?
What is your point exactly related to when this image came into being and who knew about before 1977...

[Herbert Blenner]

Which "convention" Herbert...

I see no dates related to these OTHER photos... please help me understand.

Are you too dense to understand a counting sequence?

Evidence #46 was labeled before Evidence # 48 through Evidence # 68. These higher numbered items were sent to the FBI within days of the assassination.

So the DPD have the subject photo, Evidence #46, in their possession within days of the assassination.

There's the sweet man I used to read here... ::


Herbert, are you of the opinion that the evidence and records of this assassination, especially of the FBI and DPD, is worth the ink they're written with?

You have a photocopy of an image which was not seen as a 1st gen image until 1977...
When were these images digitized HB?
Are you claiming that a numbering convention is PROOF that a photo was placed in a file at a certain time?

In Mexico City the FBI said that OSWALD entered and left Mexico because the stamp of a man who worked during the time Ozzie supposedly crossed the border has his stamp on yet another document, the Tourist Visa.

A stamp on a piece of paper, none of which can be authenticated or corroborated. In fact the man whose name it is states to the FBI that OIswald arrived in a car with 2 women and a male driver... Mr. Maydon (Mexican INS who stamped the visa) .

From my study of the Mexico Trip's and the FBI's creation of evidence, then changing their minds when THAT evidence doesn;'t work to NEW evidence... and even THAT offeres no corrorobation or authentication.

But hey, if a few numbers on a piece of paper is good enough for you... so be it.

Get to the heart of it HB... With only 2 poses in evidence and one negative, the DPD produces an image and a cutout of this 133-C pose which is not made aware to anyone and then we come to find that White and Stoval have prints of said pose and image.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove...?? that this picture existed and Marina took it with the other two? That it did not come out as good as the others so it was hidden away?
What is your point exactly related to when this image came into being and who knew about before 1977...

The Photograph Panel proved that the DPD had the negative of CE-133A from which they made the enlargement known as CE-134. So in reality the DPD had the three negatives from which CE-133A, CE-133B and 133-C were printed or enlarged.

I suggest the readers study the following link.

http://hdblenner.com/gradual.htm

[David Josephs]

Sorry HB, I have ZERO faith in the HSCA photographic panel... The HSCA was set up to simply justify the WCR conclusions -
Once again, you want to take the word of the HSCA and WCR, take it.

The only thing the HSCA proves is that an ongoing conspiracy to cover-up the real perpetrators of the crimes was alive and kicking in the mid 70's.
Maybe ask Sprague or Fonzi about your precious HSCA.

It's the same BS with the handwritting analysis and most everything else the HSCA concludes.
And when independent evidence is produced suggesting a frontal shot - our government goes on the war path to discredit it.

When witnesses state there are shots from the front, the WCR and HSCA does everything in its power to discredit it.

Sound like an innocent government doing their due diligence to me HB.... ::


Just out of curiousity HB, have you seen any evidence of these microscopic examinations which claim the markings are the same?
Have you actually seen these images/negatives in person?

What is it about a government report, THIS government report that gives you cause to believe them when virtually every bit of incriminating evidence was manipulated into position and confirmed by "government" report
as corroborated evidence against Oswald... when we learn daily that this evidence IS the conspiracy and not indicative of what actually happened of what the evidence actually says.

Why do you buy their bullsh!t HB?