Why were CIA and KGB so nice to the Oswalds?

[Jim Hargrove]

We all know the legend: Loser/loner "Lee Harvey Oswald," an ex-U.S. Marine communist, saves up his non-convertible military scrip so he can "defect" to Russia via first-class hotels and expensive private tour guides in Moscow (who say he didn't speak a word of Russian). Soviet authorities don't buy his professed love for Mother Russia, but his self-inflicted wrist wounds perhaps convince them of his earnestness. Moscow doctors suspect he secretly understands Russian, but no one finds this suspicious.


Moving to Minsk, things get weird. Marina Prusakova, an attractive babe with a pharmacology degree and a yen for American "defectors," soon falls in love with our boy, not long after meeting with Robert Webster, also an American "defector." Marina lives with her uncle, a colonel in the Soviet MVD (similar to our FBI), and apparently no one is suspicious when the ex-Marine communist "defector" begins spending time in the Soviet intelligence officer's apartment.


Harvey and Marina are married a little more than a month after they meet. A month after that, Harvey tells Marina it's time to move to the USA, and Marina is fine with that. Russian authorities and the U.S. State Department are fine with that too. Marina is granted her Russian exit visa on Christmas Day, 1961. The U.S. loans the Oswalds money to travel to the U.S.


That's the official legend, so far. To me, the obvious truth is this: "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a low-level U.S. intelligence operative and the Russians knew it. The KGB undoubtedly instructed their asset (Marina Prusakova) to contact Oswald in the hope romance would develop and she could travel to the U.S. on the wings of True Love.


With this honey trap in mind, the fact that Russian intelligence dealt with Oswald the way it did instead of torturing him to death to find out what his job entailed and what else he knew (U-2 specs, for example?) may not be as unreasonable as it seems. But what REALLY doesn't add up is that our CIA also for the most part kept hands off the young couple. By contrast, consider how the CIA spent years torturing Yuri Nosenko when he arrived in the U.S. soon after the assassination to announce that "Lee Harvey Oswald" was NOT a Soviet agent.


The CIA surely knew that Marina's live-in uncle was a high level Soviet intelligence officer, that Marina actively sought audiences with not one but TWO U.S. "defectors," and that as an attractive young woman with an advanced pharmacy agree she could undoubtedly have had her choice of many different men. But apparently they weren't suspicious enough to detain her for any significant time.


The people around Clay Shaw in New Orleans and the White Russians in Dallas and Ruth Paine were almost certainly told to keep watch on this couple, but it sure is amazing how they were managed with such a light touch by two notorious intelligence armies engaged in an enormous Cold War. Does this strike anyone else as strange?

[Scott Kaiser]

just got off the phone with KGB intelligence, Putin tells me the reason Oswald went to Mexico is because both Oswald and Judyth Baker wanted to live there after their marriage in Mexico. But, before leaving to Mexico, they wanted to have their honeymoon in Cuba, Judyth thought what a great idea, we can than ask to see Fidel Castro, Oswald said sure that's what we'll do, but first let's brew up a potion of your cancer killing agents, and when we get close enough to Castro you Judyth will inject him, Judyth replied sounds like a great idea, however, the G-2 were on to Judyth and Oswald, and Castro said NO! They're not allowed in Cuba.

Oswald was so disappointed that he asked to have his picture taken at the Embassy, he said, this is a tape recording conversation about me requesting my passport to Russia, please give this tape to Win Scott of the CIA. When Scott received the tape he gave it to Ann Goodpasture who says she gave it to the FBI, but no one knows where the hell or who the hell has it.

To their disappointment the two young lovers marriage was called off because they each discovered the other was still married to someone else so getting married in Mexico wouldn't have helped any. But, they were in total and absolute love with each other that after only knowing each other for three months Oswald completely opened up to Judyth and told her everything there is to know about him. Oswald introduced Judyth to Dave Ferre, Carlos Marcello and Guy Banister, Oswald said, Judyth, these are the guy's I'm working for.

In-fact, Oswald told Judyth he had to leave New Orleans, not because his wife and children are living in Dallas and he misses them, especially his little girls. But, the real reason he had to leave for Dallas was he needed to save the president from some assassin, he told Judyth, I'm going to get me a job at the TSBD and just as the motorcade drives by I'm going to throw a firecracker out the window as a warning to the president that someone is trying to kill you.

Judyth was heartbroken, she pleaded and pleaded with Oswald not to go, she said, my God my love, but what if they thought it was you who killed the president someone might want to kill you too, and I couldn't live with that thinking we had a chance of getting married, and then someone took you away from me. I would need to write a book and call it Me & Lee, you see it's because I have to put me before Lee.

Lee said, do what you have to do my love, if I'm successful, and I save the president we could then live happily forever after plotting ways to kill Castro together. The next thing that KGB agent man told me was, and Lee left, he told Judyth to keep her check stub because it will be enough proof that they were once lovers.

The End.

[Jim Hargrove]

That was pretty funny, Scott. I *LOVE* JVB humor...

... but I was trying to be serious, despite a few sarcasms.

Soon after I posted the above, Peter Lemkin made a post called Staffan Westerberg and Pete Engwal On Oswald Marina USSR Russian Friends in USA or something like that, which directly referred to some of my questions. Peter's post was filled with fascinating info and connections, but few definitive answers. This is a VERY frustrating case, further proof, at least to me, that the Kennedy Assassination was an Intelligence Operation.

[Magda Hassan]

We all know the legend: Loser/loner "Lee Harvey Oswald," an ex-U.S. Marine communist, saves up his non-convertible military scrip so he can "defect" to Russia via first-class hotels and expensive private tour guides in Moscow (who say he didn't speak a word of Russian). Soviet authorities don't buy his professed love for Mother Russia, but his self-inflicted wrist wounds perhaps convince them of his earnestness. Moscow doctors suspect he secretly understands Russian, but no one finds this suspicious.


Moving to Minsk, things get weird. Marina Prusakova, an attractive babe with a pharmacology degree and a yen for American "defectors," soon falls in love with our boy, not long after meeting with Robert Webster, also an American "defector." Marina lives with her uncle, a colonel in the Soviet MVD (similar to our FBI), and apparently no one is suspicious when the ex-Marine communist "defector" begins spending time in the Soviet intelligence officer's apartment.


Harvey and Marina are married a little more than a month after they meet. A month after that, Harvey tells Marina it's time to move to the USA, and Marina is fine with that. Russian authorities and the U.S. State Department are fine with that too. Marina is granted her Russian exit visa on Christmas Day, 1961. The U.S. loans the Oswalds money to travel to the U.S.


That's the official legend, so far. To me, the obvious truth is this: "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a low-level U.S. intelligence operative and the Russians knew it. The KGB undoubtedly instructed their asset (Marina Prusakova) to contact Oswald in the hope romance would develop and she could travel to the U.S. on the wings of True Love.


With this honey trap in mind, the fact that Russian intelligence dealt with Oswald the way it did instead of torturing him to death to find out what his job entailed and what else he knew (U-2 specs, for example?) may not be as unreasonable as it seems. But what REALLY doesn't add up is that our CIA also for the most part kept hands off the young couple. By contrast, consider how the CIA spent years torturing Yuri Nosenko when he arrived in the U.S. soon after the assassination to announce that "Lee Harvey Oswald" was NOT a Soviet agent.


The CIA surely knew that Marina's live-in uncle was a high level Soviet intelligence officer, that Marina actively sought audiences with not one but TWO U.S. "defectors," and that as an attractive young woman with an advanced pharmacy agree she could undoubtedly have had her choice of many different men. But apparently they weren't suspicious enough to detain her for any significant time.


The people around Clay Shaw in New Orleans and the White Russians in Dallas and Ruth Paine were almost certainly told to keep watch on this couple, but it sure is amazing how they were managed with such a light touch by two notorious intelligence armies engaged in an enormous Cold War. Does this strike anyone else as strange?

Yes. Much strangeness about it. But mostly on the US side. Clearly Oswald isn't the lone nut communist marine genuine defector as the official version goes. The soviets would never have tortured Oswald. Of course they knew he was not a genuine communist, they would have know and checked, and he was not a genuine defector either as there are established ways to do that which he didn't use. So, yes, the alarm bells went off about him and I am sure they would have considered he was a false defector especially as there were other strange arrivals in the same period from the false defectors program being run. At his age though very low level with minimal information of use if any. He gave some thing to them any way. As he said he would. Their own intelligence sources were very good any way. Best to shunt him off to the provinces and keep him busy with a job and new friends and have him minded by Marina (and others). The Webster thing is very odd. Lends to her being some sort of minder. Wittingly or not. She wouldn't have been the only minder though. She was in good standing with the government and not in important employment so there is no reason for them not to allow her to go live with Oswald in the US. Presumably with the expectation of more information later down the track. Oswald's return is paid for by the US. This itself is suspicious given his statement when defecting to give all secrets (even if they were really not very valuable ones) to the Soviets. But if he was a false defector they would want their agent back. As far as CIA interest in him/them it it is only strange if we think of the CIA to be one monolithic entity with all of its personnel working towards the same cause. Which it clearly isn't. So one part knew exactly who and what Oswald was and Marina but not other sections.

[Alan Ford]

Jim's telling points clearly illustrates that what we have been lead to believe about Oswald runs counter to the manner in which he easily moves about the grand chessboard during the height of the Cold War period (any legitimate traitor would have been tried for treason and hung in the public square upon his return stateside). Oswald's trusting deposition was a handler's dream...his handlers--via the clever use of compartmentalization--lured him on a pretext right where they needed him to be on Friday, November 22, 1963.

[Peter Lemkin]

That was pretty funny, Scott. I *LOVE* JVB humor...

... but I was trying to be serious, despite a few sarcasms.

Soon after I posted the above, Peter Lemkin made a post called Staffan Westerberg and Pete Engwal On Oswald Marina USSR Russian Friends in USA or something like that, which directly referred to some of my questions. Peter's post was filled with fascinating info and connections, but few definitive answers. This is a VERY frustrating case, further proof, at least to me, that the Kennedy Assassination was an Intelligence Operation.

That post I made is here https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...Westerberg

[Scott Kaiser]

That was pretty funny, Scott. I *LOVE* JVB humor...

... but I was trying to be serious, despite a few sarcasms.

Soon after I posted the above, Peter Lemkin made a post called Staffan Westerberg and Pete Engwal On Oswald Marina USSR Russian Friends in USA or something like that, which directly referred to some of my questions. Peter's post was filled with fascinating info and connections, but few definitive answers. This is a VERY frustrating case, further proof, at least to me, that the Kennedy Assassination was an Intelligence Operation.

If you liked that one, I have more, just saying. ::bowtie::