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Of course, if the pneumatic door closer on the vestibule door was a slow closer, and neither Baker or Truly saw the door closing, it would make a very good case for Oswald arriving at the lunch room via the hallway to the right of the vestibule door, should the 2nd floor lunch room meeting actually have occurred.
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
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If you were willing to ignore what Truly/Baker said about their route, you could get a much more plausible story, miss Adams/Styles on the stairs, and preserve a lunchroom encounter:
"(Hypothetical) Baker, believing the shots came from the roof, runs into the building and summons the first elevator he sees: the front door elevator, not knowing it doesn't go to the top. (Styles and Adams head to the stairs) In the few seconds it takes for the elevator to arrive, Truly, who came in from Elm Street behind Baker, joins him in (or at) the elevator, takes Baker as high as the elevator goes (the second floor), where (Baker in front, like all cops would do) they run down the hallway, take a right at the corner, and head toward the vestibule. (At this point, Styles and Adams are crossing the second floor landing and heading down the stairs.)
Baker, standing in the vestibule, (who has no real idea what floor he is on at the moment, except that the elevator didn't go any higher) alertly notices something through just the lunchroom door, and barges in to confront Oswald. Truly, knowing that Baker has swerved aside from the path to the roof, opens and stands in the vestibule door, and is able to recognize Oswald. After that, Baker charges past Truly again and they head up the stairs."
Like I said, this involves ignoring their testimony and reports; but, if you are suggesting that they lied under oath about the rest of it, you have no reason to suppose they told the truth about their actual route either. Heck, maybe Baker wanted the Coke. After breathing motorcycle and limo fumes for an hour, who could blame him? Maybe Baker decides later he doesn't want people to know he waited for the elevator. For some strange reason, though (as it seems this story favors Oswald), the folks creating this particular narrative chose these details to preserve.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
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Drew Phipps Wrote:If you were willing to ignore what Truly/Baker said about their route, you could get a much more plausible story, miss Adams/Styles on the stairs, and preserve a lunchroom encounter:
"(Hypothetical) Baker, believing the shots came from the roof, runs into the building and summons the first elevator he sees: the front door elevator, not knowing it doesn't go to the top. (Styles and Adams head to the stairs) In the few seconds it takes for the elevator to arrive, Truly, who came in from Elm Street behind Baker, joins him in (or at) the elevator, takes Baker as high as the elevator goes (the second floor), where (Baker in front, like all cops would do) they run down the hallway, take a right at the corner, and head toward the vestibule. (At this point, Styles and Adams are crossing the second floor landing and heading down the stairs.)
Baker, standing in the vestibule, (who has no real idea what floor he is on at the moment, except that the elevator didn't go any higher) alertly notices something through just the lunchroom door, and barges in to confront Oswald. Truly, knowing that Baker has swerved aside from the path to the roof, opens and stands in the vestibule door, and is able to recognize Oswald. After that, Baker charges past Truly again and they head up the stairs."
Like I said, this involves ignoring their testimony and reports; but, if you are suggesting that they lied under oath about the rest of it, you have no reason to suppose they told the truth about their actual route either. Heck, maybe Baker wanted the Coke. After breathing motorcycle and limo fumes for an hour, who could blame him? Maybe Baker decides later he doesn't want people to know he waited for the elevator. For some strange reason, though (as it seems this story favors Oswald), the folks creating this particular narrative chose these details to preserve.
I've often wondered if the conspirators have ever wished they could re-write some of their story.
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
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On the slow/fast closing issue, it would have to be slow enough that it was still moving when Baker arrives to perceive it. If it was that slow, it could hardly shut itself in time to be closed when Truly doubles back from a couple of steps farther along.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
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Quote:I've often wondered if the conspirators have ever wished they could re-write some of their story.
Wasn't that the point of the HSCA?
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
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Drew Phipps Wrote:Quote:I've often wondered if the conspirators have ever wished they could re-write some of their story.
Wasn't that the point of the HSCA?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
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Drew Phipps Wrote:Quote:I've often wondered if the conspirators have ever wished they could re-write some of their story.
Wasn't that the point of the HSCA?
And it's what keeps Dale Myers, David Von Pein and Mel Ayton so busy.
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Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Of course, if the pneumatic door closer on the vestibule door was a slow closer, and neither Baker or Truly saw the door closing, it would make a very good case for Oswald arriving at the lunch room via the hallway to the right of the vestibule door, should the 2nd floor lunch room meeting actually have occurred.
Or 'Oswald' being in there the whole time according to Carolyn Arnold.
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Albert Doyle Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Of course, if the pneumatic door closer on the vestibule door was a slow closer, and neither Baker or Truly saw the door closing, it would make a very good case for Oswald arriving at the lunch room via the hallway to the right of the vestibule door, should the 2nd floor lunch room meeting actually have occurred.
Or 'Oswald' being in there the whole time according to Carolyn Arnold.
Do you mean while the assassination was taking place?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
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My money is on Carolyn Arnold being correct and seeing 'Oswald' in the lunch-room at 12:25. He's in there during the assassination and is seen by Baker & Truly whenever exactly that encounter did occur.
It makes sense to me that his Intel handlers had him in a place that would keep him away from both the portal and 6th floor and have no alibi. They failed to predict Carolyn Arnold's thirst because of her pregnancy. Part of Truly's job that day might have been encouraging everyone to watch the motorcade.
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