Why the second floor lunch room encounter could not have happened

[Drew Phipps]

Bob, you are 100% correct. IF you already know the shooter is done shooting.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Bob, you are 100% correct. IF you already know the shooter is done shooting.

Finished shooting or not, I don't really see the difference. It's not like DPD headquarters was miles away or something, it was basically almost kitty corner from the TSBD. Baker could have yelled for backup from the front of the TSBD and, as there were several members of the DPD plus Sheriff's deputies watching the motorcade on Houston St., backup would have arrived within seconds.

No, if Baker is telling the truth, he did a reckless and stupid thing, charging solo into the TSBD. In Canada, an RCMP constable would be severely reprimanded for such a foolish act.

[Drew Phipps]

Many, perhaps most, of our fine police officers, firemen, paramedics, and other first responders here in the US would risk their lives to save another. Thank God!

[Bob Prudhomme]

Many, perhaps most, of our fine police officers, firemen, paramedics, and other first responders here in the US would risk their lives to save another. Thank God!

Whoa, there! First off, I am a part time paramedic, and here in Canada, as well as the USA, most, if not all, ambulance services have a strict policy that does not allow us to enter a violent scene until it has been secured by the "Code 5's" (police). It is wisely considered we have enough patients to deal with already, without making ourselves patients, and robbing the real patients of our life saving skills.

Our RCMP also has many brave members willing to risk their lives for others, but they also are a highly disciplined organization, and solo "Rambo" acts are frowned upon, as unproductive.

Do you not agree that Baker would have known there was ample backup within shouting distance of the TSBD? And that it would not have taken very long to put together an organized plan that involved preventing anyone from escaping the TSBD, while they roamed the upper floors looking for God knows what?

[Drew Phipps]

I would normally agree with you, but in this case it actually took (what did we decide in that other thread???) wasn't it 15 minutes to seal off the building? Back in 1963, did officers have body mikes to call for assistance? Maybe Baker should have called it in before leaving his bike with a radio attached; but as I recall, someone's motorcycle microphone was stuck open, interfering with some radio communications. I agree that there was a notable lack of organization, (and perhaps panicky reactions) at the scene, but let's face it: Baker was right, and he was first.

I would submit that it was Sheriff Decker's stand down order: "Watch and observe," wasn't it? that most hampered the response of available manpower within running distance. At least until individual sheriffs deputies bravely ignored their orders and went to help.

(You brought up Canada. No disrespect intended. Well, maybe a little bit of cross-border ribbing was intended.)

[Bob Prudhomme]

I would normally agree with you, but in this case it actually took (what did we decide in that other thread???) wasn't it 15 minutes to seal off the building? Back in 1963, did officers have body mikes to call for assistance? Maybe Baker should have called it in before leaving his bike with a radio attached; but as I recall, someone's motorcycle microphone was stuck open, interfering with some radio communications. I agree that there was a notable lack of organization, (and perhaps panicky reactions) at the scene, but let's face it: Baker was right, and he was first.

I would submit that it was Sheriff Decker's stand down order: "Watch and observe," wasn't it? that most hampered the response of available manpower within running distance. At least until individual sheriffs deputies bravely ignored their orders and went to help.

(You brought up Canada. No disrespect intended. Well, maybe a little bit of cross-border ribbing was intended.)

I don't know, Drew. You have to remember, Baker had just ridden slowly past the DPD building, and probably recognized the majority of officers, detectives and deputies standing on Houston St. watching the motorcade. If he was so sure he had the perpetrator cornered in the TSBD, wouldn't he have yelled across the street "Hey guys! He's in here! Come give me a hand!" ? But he doesn't. He doesn't even call out to the traffic officers standing on the corner of Elm & Houston.

Sorry, Drew, I know the American westerns are full of the fearless, lone lawmen but, this one just doesn't add up for me.

[Albert Doyle]

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything about a Coca Cola or anything like that, if you remember?
Mr. HOLMES. Seems like he said he was drinking a Coca Cola, standing there by the Coca Cola machine drinking a Coca Cola.

This sounds like a jumbling of the lunch-room encounter with the final exit confrontation from the front door.


People don't realize how credible Armstrong is. I think researchers are missing a basic point in all this. The most-likely reason these encounter witnessings don't line-up and are confused is because there were two Oswald's in the Depository and the witnesses are describing the actions of two different people.

[Albert Doyle]

Bob:


The assassination research world never ceases to amaze.

Hume over at EF - who normally posts "Oswald Code" weirdness, actually pointed-out something amazing. If you look at your Shelley/Lovelady walking clip Hume noticed something important.

Watch the woman who runs by Shelley and Lovelady. Shelley slows down and turns his head towards the woman as if he's listening to something she says as she runs by. Or he is slowing down in anticipation of talking to her but she runs past. The timing of this explains why Lovelady gets out ahead of Shelley.

Pretty interesting and possibly a new clue provided by an unexpected source.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Bob:


The assassination research world never ceases to amaze.

Hume over at EF - who normally posts "Oswald Code" weirdness, actually pointed-out something amazing. If you look at your Shelley/Lovelady walking clip Hume noticed something important.

Watch the woman who runs by Shelley and Lovelady. Shelley slows down and turns his head towards the woman as if he's listening to something she says as she runs by. Or he is slowing down in anticipation of talking to her but she runs past. The timing of this explains why Lovelady gets out ahead of Shelley.

Pretty interesting and possibly a new clue provided by an unexpected source.

Let me guess, next someone will have the revelation the running woman is none other than....wait for it.....GLORIA CALVERY!!!

This has become so predictable.

[Albert Doyle]

I haven't said that, but the clip does appear to support Shelley slowing down to talk to her.