Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Dawn Meredith]

I think your friend "Jim" is absolutely right. Judyth is being harrassed for her work and what she knows about the ability to inject cancer etc., having nothing at all to do with her relationship with Lee. She can PROVE that which our government has long denied.

Stay safe, both of you.

Dawn

[Adrian Mack]

No disrespect to Dr. Jim, but I think Fetzer's anonymous expert torpedoes his credibility here:

Most know about the Tuskeege experiments, but less know about the current chemtrail ops alleged by some to being run out of the University of Michigan via a DOD bioweapons contract

.

Who are the "some" making the allegations and why should I take such an indiscriminate reference to something almost certainly as nonsensical as 'chemtrails' seriously? What next? The Philadelphia Experiment??

We also know that the JCS ordered the termination of JFK with extreme prejudice and a "signed finding" (by the will of Hoover, LBJ, Nixon, Bush1, Dulles, etc.) and this was likely detailed to the CIA,

Sorry, but I don't think we "know" any of the above. And why are the names Hoover, LBJ, and Nixon bundled together like this? And Bush 1? I'm reminded of Seamus Coogan's essay on John Hankey.

I think Judyth Vary Baker deserves sympathy and respect, and an honest inquiry into her story doesn't benefit from shaky, unsourced super-narratives that read like copypasta from Godlike Productions.

[James H. Fetzer]

Egad! Someone who knows so little should display humility in the face of those who know so much more. Do some research on chem trails and you may realize that your naive belief is not well founded. On JFK, if you don't know that LBJ and Egar were principals along with major players from the CIA and supported by the Joint Chiefs and elements of the Mafia, you are obviously out of date. Try reading James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, for example, or even my "Dealey Plaza Revisited: What Happened to JFK?" on my blog at http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com. I'm sorry, Adrian, but you are the one who does not know what he's talking about, not my source.

No disrespect to Dr. Jim, but I think Fetzer's anonymous expert torpedoes his credibility here:

Most know about the Tuskeege experiments, but less know about the current chemtrail ops alleged by some to being run out of the University of Michigan via a DOD bioweapons contract

.

Who are the "some" making the allegations and why should I take such an indiscriminate reference to something almost certainly as nonsensical as 'chemtrails' seriously? What next? The Philadelphia Experiment??

We also know that the JCS ordered the termination of JFK with extreme prejudice and a "signed finding" (by the will of Hoover, LBJ, Nixon, Bush1, Dulles, etc.) and this was likely detailed to the CIA,

Sorry, but I don't think we "know" any of the above. And why are the names Hoover, LBJ, and Nixon bundled together like this? And Bush 1? I'm reminded of Seamus Coogan's essay on John Hankey.

I think Judyth Vary Baker deserves sympathy and respect, and an honest inquiry into her story doesn't benefit from shaky, unsourced super-narratives that read like copypasta from Godlike Productions.

[John Kowalski]

Is she for real? I've never quite been sure.

I'm not so much questioning whether she knew Ochsner, Oswald, Ferrie et al.but whether the bulk of her story checks out.

I'd appreciate feedback from those who are more well-studied on these issues than I...

After reading Judyth Vary Baker's book, Lee Harvey Oswald The True Story of the Accussed Assassin of President John F. Kennedy By His Lover, I cannot help but find her story, for the most part, unbelievable. There are many problems with her story, and I will mention some of them. There are some parts of her story that can be verified, and she may have had a relationship of some kind with Oswald, but her relationship with Oswald, as she describes in her book, is truly unbelievable.

A major problem with her book is that no other researcher ever mentioned her in their research. She claims to have been with Oswald throughout the summer of 1963. She tells the reader that she spent countless hours at Ferrie's apartment working on the “bio-weapon,” she claims to have met Jack Ruby, was at the party mentioned by Perry Russo, met Dr. Sherman and worked with Dr. Alton Oschner. If she spent so much time with Oswald, then, why is she not mentioned by any one of the hundreds, if not thousands of researchers that have dissected Oswald’s life? Even John Armstrong’s thousand-page tome, Harvey and Lee, does not provide any evidence that Oswald knew Baker. Jim Garrison’s investigation also did not mention her, and given the amount of time she claims to have spent with Oswald, someone would have had to seen her with him. She says that she resembled Oswald’s wife Marina, and this could be a possible explanation, but Oswald is never seen with any women.

Another problem with her story is her recall of dates, times that events occurred, begs the question, how did she remember all of this information? She claims that she took notes when she was living in New Orleans in the summer of 1963, however, I find it hard to accept that she had her notepad with her at every moment. Her book is two volumes, for that amount of narrative she would have had to be taking notes every moment she was with Oswald. A reader can reasonable expect that someone trying to recall events that occurred over 40 years ago would have difficulty in doing so, and should have just admitted it. Instead, she gives dates and time of day. This I have a hard time accepting.

Some aspects of her story can be verified, like the fact that she worked at Reilly’s Coffee Company, at the she was an ace science student. I was left wondering why such a brilliant student like her, with her credentials, was spending her summer working in administrative position, in a company that probably had links to the intelligence community, when she could have easily been working doing scientific research. More research needs to be done here. She claims to have taken the position as a “cover job” while doing research for Dr. Alton Oschner. Another possible explanation could have been that she wanted to be close to her husband who she had just married. New Orleans was a lot closer to her husband’s place of work off the coast of Louisiana than her home in southern Florida. I have yet to see any response from her husband, and none is provided in her book to corroborate her claim that she went to New Orleans to work for Oschner.

There is a possibility that she had some form of relationship with Oswald, they may have had a tryst of some sort, and they may have rode the same bus to work everyday as she claims they did, but the relationship as she tells it, of Oswald and her spending what seems to be most of their spare time together, is too incredible to accept. Perhaps what she is telling her readers is the classic fishermen’s story, the small one that got away that just keeps growing and growing. Perhaps they did have an affair, maybe they did meet on a few occasions, and like most attached people having affairs, they went to great lengths to conceal their meetings, and this could explain why Jim Garrison’s investigation, and all of the other researchers and government committees never discovered her. Unless she provides more credible evidence, maybe that is all there is to her story.


John Kowalski

[Adrian Mack]

Dr. Fetzer, I did research chemtrails, insofar as anybody can, and I found no there there. But I did find a lot of mindfuckery from the likes of Bearden.

On JFK, if you don't know that LBJ and Egar were principals along with major players from the CIA and supported by the Joint Chiefs and elements of the Mafia, you are obviously out of date.

Who says I don't? My point is that your source made an unequivocal statement that confuses and conflates the roles of the above and then adds bit or non-players like Bush 1 and Nixon into the equation. Admittedly, I don't know what he/she means by "signed finding", but if it suggests Hoover's or Johnson's specific foreknowledge of the assassination, then I think it's contestable. Hoover and Johnson as principals in the cover-up, however? No argument from me.

I've read the very fine Douglass book.

[James H. Fetzer]

Adrian, Nixon even attended the ratification meeting at the home of Clint Murchison the night before, as Madeleine Duncan Brown, with whom I had more than 100 conversations, has told me. Lyndon showed up late and they--Murchison, H.L. Hunt, Nixon, Johnson, George Brown, John J. McCloy, and J. Edgar included--went into a conference room for about fifteen mintues, after which Lyndon strode over to Madeleine and told her, in a hateful tone of voice, that he wouldn't have to put up with those Kennedy boys "after tomorrow". The meeting was confirmed in spades in "The Guilty Men", the final segment of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". Six weeks later, during a rendezvous at the Driskill Hotel in Austin on New Year's Eve, she confronted him with rumors, rampant in Dallas at the time, that he had been involved, since no one stood to gain more personally. He blew up at her and told her that the CIA and the "oil boys" had decided that JFK had to have been taken out. She wrote about it in her book, TEXAS IN THE MORNING, and Billy Sol Estes confirmed it in his A TEXAS LEGEND. I have told this story so many times I thought it was common knowledge within the JFK research community, but apparently I am wrong. There's quite a lot about GHWB having been involved, where I believe I was the first to identify him standing in front of the BOOK DEPOSITORY following the assassination in a photograph in Jessie Curry's JFK ASSASSINATION FILE, which I discuss in some detail in a chapter in MUDER about whether Lee Oswald could have been convicted in a court of law. Without any doubt, he could not have based upon the evidence, although a rigged trial would have been probable.

Dr. Fetzer, I did research chemtrails, insofar as anybody can, and I found no there there. But I did find a lot of mindfuckery from the likes of Bearden.

On JFK, if you don't know that LBJ and Egar were principals along with major players from the CIA and supported by the Joint Chiefs and elements of the Mafia, you are obviously out of date.

Who says I don't? My point is that your source made an unequivocal statement that confuses and conflates the roles of the above and then adds bit or non-players like Bush 1 and Nixon into the equation. Admittedly, I don't know what he/she means by "signed finding", but if it suggests Hoover's or Johnson's specific foreknowledge of the assassination, then I think it's contestable. Hoover and Johnson as principals in the cover-up, however? No argument from me.

I've read the very fine Douglass book.

[James H. Fetzer]

John, I will discuss this with Judyth, but my understanding is that her new book, ME & LEE, is the only one she considers to be authentic. I can tell you that I am discussing this on The Education Forum and Judyth has sent me a lot of corroborating evidence. I have recently interviewed her twice now on YouTube and my blogs, which you might want to consult for information that comes directly from her. Wim Dankbarr, by the way, has suggested that those who want more about Judyth should view Ed Haslam and Anna Lewis, a friend of hers from New Orleans with whom she and Lee double-dated, in a video at his web site, http://jfkmurdersolved.com/judyth.htm More later.

Is she for real? I've never quite been sure.

I'm not so much questioning whether she knew Ochsner, Oswald, Ferrie et al.but whether the bulk of her story checks out.

I'd appreciate feedback from those who are more well-studied on these issues than I...

After reading Judyth Vary Baker's book, Lee Harvey Oswald The True Story of the Accussed Assassin of President John F. Kennedy By His Lover, I cannot help but find her story, for the most part, unbelievable. There are many problems with her story, and I will mention some of them. There are some parts of her story that can be verified, and she may have had a relationship of some kind with Oswald, but her relationship with Oswald, as she describes in her book, is truly unbelievable.

A major problem with her book is that no other researcher ever mentioned her in their research. She claims to have been with Oswald throughout the summer of 1963. She tells the reader that she spent countless hours at Ferrie's apartment working on the “bio-weapon,” she claims to have met Jack Ruby, was at the party mentioned by Perry Russo, met Dr. Sherman and worked with Dr. Alton Oschner. If she spent so much time with Oswald, then, why is she not mentioned by any one of the hundreds, if not thousands of researchers that have dissected Oswald’s life? Even John Armstrong’s thousand-page tome, Harvey and Lee, does not provide any evidence that Oswald knew Baker. Jim Garrison’s investigation also did not mention her, and given the amount of time she claims to have spent with Oswald, someone would have had to seen her with him. She says that she resembled Oswald’s wife Marina, and this could be a possible explanation, but Oswald is never seen with any women.

Another problem with her story is her recall of dates, times that events occurred, begs the question, how did she remember all of this information? She claims that she took notes when she was living in New Orleans in the summer of 1963, however, I find it hard to accept that she had her notepad with her at every moment. Her book is two volumes, for that amount of narrative she would have had to be taking notes every moment she was with Oswald. A reader can reasonable expect that someone trying to recall events that occurred over 40 years ago would have difficulty in doing so, and should have just admitted it. Instead, she gives dates and time of day. This I have a hard time accepting.

Some aspects of her story can be verified, like the fact that she worked at Reilly’s Coffee Company, at the she was an ace science student. I was left wondering why such a brilliant student like her, with her credentials, was spending her summer working in administrative position, in a company that probably had links to the intelligence community, when she could have easily been working doing scientific research. More research needs to be done here. She claims to have taken the position as a “cover job” while doing research for Dr. Alton Oschner. Another possible explanation could have been that she wanted to be close to her husband who she had just married. New Orleans was a lot closer to her husband’s place of work off the coast of Louisiana than her home in southern Florida. I have yet to see any response from her husband, and none is provided in her book to corroborate her claim that she went to New Orleans to work for Oschner.

There is a possibility that she had some form of relationship with Oswald, they may have had a tryst of some sort, and they may have rode the same bus to work everyday as she claims they did, but the relationship as she tells it, of Oswald and her spending what seems to be most of their spare time together, is too incredible to accept. Perhaps what she is telling her readers is the classic fishermen’s story, the small one that got away that just keeps growing and growing. Perhaps they did have an affair, maybe they did meet on a few occasions, and like most attached people having affairs, they went to great lengths to conceal their meetings, and this could explain why Jim Garrison’s investigation, and all of the other researchers and government committees never discovered her. Unless she provides more credible evidence, maybe that is all there is to her story.


John Kowalski

[Adrian Mack]

...whether Lee Oswald could have been convicted in a court of law. Without any doubt, he could not have based upon the evidence

This is where we agree.

[James H. Fetzer]

So you are telling me (by indirection) that you do not believe that Lyndon, J. Edgar, Nixon, and the others, including the Joint Chiefs, were involved? How much time have you invested in studying this case? I never ceases to amaze me how many students of JFK don't have a clue about some of its most basic elements. Do you know the X-rays were altered, another brain was substituted, and the Zapruder film was recreated? Have you ever studied any of my books about his death? Have you picked up Doug Horne's five books? I'm just the least bit curious about where you are coming from.

...whether Lee Oswald could have been convicted in a court of law. Without any doubt, he could not have based upon the evidence

This is where we agree.

[John Kowalski]

[quote=James H. Fetzer]John, I will discuss this with Judyth, but my understanding is that her new book, ME & LEE, is the only one she considers to be authentic. I can tell you that I am discussing this on The Education Forum and Judyth has sent me a lot of corroborating evidence. I have recently interviewed her twice now on YouTube and my blogs, which you might want to consult for information that comes directly from her. Wim Dankbarr, by the way, has suggested that those who want more about Judyth should view Ed Haslam and Anna Lewis, a friend of hers from New Orleans with whom she and Lee double-dated, in a video at his web site, http://jfkmurdersolved.com/judyth.htm More later.

James. if you could, could you ask Judyth a come questions? After reading her book, I did some research. I ordered a copy of the New Orleans City Directory for Marengo Street. I ordered copies for 1962,1964 and 1966 as the directory was published every two years. A man named Roland Sicard is listed as living at 1032 Marengo in the years is 1962 and 1964 while Susie Hanover, the woman mentioned in her book, is listed as 1032 1/2 Marengo. Judyth says that her address is 1032 Marengo, how can she live there if Roland Sicard is already there?

Has she (or you) interviewed any living friends or relatives of Susie Hanover? Judyth says that Lee's uncle Dutz (Murret) had ties to Susie Hanover's husband deceased husband (William) and this is how Lee was able to find Judyth a a place to live at 1032 Marengo. Have the ties between Dutz Murret and William Hanover been confirmed? Given Oswald's nation-wide notoriety after Kennedy's assassination, Susie Hanover must have talked to someone regarding Oswald and Baker. She must have talked to relatives or friends. Has any attempt been made to question them about Oswald's and Baker's relationship?

John Kowalski