Posts: 1,141
Threads: 86
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2009
This is a rather odd response, Mark. I have explained where my research has taken me and you are suggesting where you think I should have come out. I have already mentioned James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, as one source that agrees with me. Another is Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON. Both books, as I understand it, are about to appear. Others include Madeleine Duncan Brown, TEXAS IN THE MORNING, Billy Sol Estes, A TEXAS LEGEND, H. Howard Hunt's "Last Confession", and other sources. An extended list of the parties that appear to have been involved would include members the Dallas Police Department and the Dallas Sheriff's Department. My research supports the conclusion that shots were fired from six locations, none of which was the 6th floor "assassin's lair". And I am not simply talking about those who had motive. Since I have acknowledged that Israel may have had motive but does not appear to have been involved, I would have thought that much would be obvious. There are many ways all of this might have played out. I am talking about how it actually took place. I am getting the sense that you want to manipulate the situation on this thread. That does not interest me. I have answered your question. It appears that I was right when I thought you were seeking to impose your opinions upon me.
Mark Stapleton Wrote:James H. Fetzer Wrote:Mark,
The list of those involved appears to be substantial. The oil men feared he would cut the oil depletion allowance. Anti-Castro Cubans wanted revenge for the Bay of Pigs. The Joint Chiefs had concluded that he was part of the problem and not the solution to containing the expansion of international communism: he had not invaded Cuba (which they supported), he had signed an above ground test-ban treaty with the Soviet Union (which they opposed), and he was pulling our forces out of Vietnam (which they also opposed). He was threatening to shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces. Bobby was cracking down on the mob. He was going to reform or abolish the FED.
James, thanks for your reply.
This list you present is an (incomplete) list of those who had motive to want JFK dead, rather than a list of 'those involved', although I believe some had involvement at varying levels.
In a murder investigation, motive is one of the big 3 conditions, alongside means and opportunity, which need to be satisfactorily addressed before a conviction can be obtained. So motive is critically important if one is to proceed, and all who had motive should be looked at thoroughly, if one is to conduct an honest and complete investigation.
This is why I can't understand why you would arbitrarily rule a line beneath those you have listed, and not include Zionist Israel given what we now know about their pervasive influence throughout the institutions governing the US.
Texas oil certainly feared removal of the depletion allowance which JFK announced in early 1963 (but could not get through Congress). They also hated his left of centre, peace loving initiatives which they saw as the antithesis of what a good old commie hating, ass-kicking President should be. They were willing helpers with lots of money and power but not the architects, as I see it. Also, why then did they fail to assassinate Jimmy Carter when the depreciation allowance was scrapped during his administration?
'The mob' by which you seem to infer the Italian mafia, were under pressure, but this had been the case with previous administrations. If their natural response was to assassinate Presidents who had double crossed them, why didn't the nationwide syndicate led by Lucky Luciano attempt to assassinate FDR when he unleashed the Seabury investigation on them after he shrewdly obtained the support of mob controlled Tammany Hall for his nomination in 1932 by promising not to do that very thing?
Ditto for anti-Castro Cubans. Angry miscreants with zero access to the levers of real power have no place in a conspiracy of this complexity, except as ground level soldiers, to be readily sacrificed when circumstances dictate.
Apologies, but I'll have to make this post a two parter, as I have to attend to other things right now, and I want to examine the issue of motive further, in particular that of Zionist Israel (but not make it too long). To be continued......
Mark Stapleton
Unregistered
James H. Fetzer Wrote:This is a rather odd response, Mark. I have explained where my research has taken me and you are suggesting where you think I should have come out. I have already mentioned James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, as one source that agrees with me. Another is Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON. Both books, as I understand it, are about to appear. Others include Madeleine Duncan Brown, TEXAS IN THE MORNING, Billy Sol Estes, A TEXAS LEGEND, H. Howard Hunt's "Last Confession", and other sources. An extended list of the parties that appear to have been involved would include members the Dallas Police Department and the Dallas Sheriff's Department. My research supports the conclusion that shots were fired from six locations, none of which was the 6th floor "assassin's lair". And I am not simply talking about those who had motive. Since I have acknowledged that Israel may have had motive but does not appear to have been involved, I would have thought that much would be obvious. There are many ways all of this might have played out. I am talking about how it actually took place. I am getting the sense that you want to manipulate the situation on this thread. That does not interest me. I have answered your question. It appears that I was right when I thought you were seeking to impose your opinions upon me.
It's not an odd response at all. I'm merely pointing out that some of the parties you suggest were involved couldn't have played more than bit player roles or indeed were merely sideline supporters. For example, anti-Castro Cubans and the mafia didn't have the influence within the Government, military and intelligence institutions to even go close to organising Kennedy's execution.
What I will try to show is that Israel's motive was indeed much stronger than that of any other potential conspirators, and that they had the necessary influence to co-ordinate the plot at the highest level and ensure its success and that of the subsequent coverup.
You haven't given any broad outline of the plot and nominated who, in your opinion, was responsible at the highest levels. You've just thrown a whole lot of suspicious groups together and claimed there is evidence implicating all of them, which I'm not doubting.
As for seeking to impose my opinions on you, isn't that what debate is about? Didn't the authors of the books you cited do the same? All I'm asking is that you hear my arguments. You say Israel 'does not appear to have been involved' but what are you looking for? Guys with the word 'Mossad' emblazened on their lapels?
In any case, I hope you don't tune out because I think a person with your impressive credentials is more worthy than that. In the next few days I'll conclude the earlier post but at the moment I'm a bit concerned about the lack of response from the admins about Bob Ringler.
Posts: 3,905
Threads: 200
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Sep 2008
Bob was put on moderation. Myra or Magda can better explain this than can I.
The function is not working properly, so while not banned, and because of a sanfu with the software, he is unable to post. This will be rectified as soon as possilbe, by one of the admins.
Dawn
Posts: 1,141
Threads: 86
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2009
07-05-2010, 02:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2010, 02:22 PM by James H. Fetzer.)
OK. Your knowledge of the role of the anti-Castro Cubans appears to be quite limited. They were extremely important politically at the time and had extensive connections with both the mob and the agency in ops on the island. A good book related to this is THE ZENITH SECRET by Bradley Ayers, an Army captain on loan to the CIA from May 1963 to December 1964. Indeed, the anti-Castro Cubans have been politically potent ever since in affecting US politics because of the important role of the State of Florida in elections. The embargo against Cuba, for example, would have ended long ago, were it not for the political clout of that community. If you know no more about Alpha 66, for example, or that Banister and Ferrie and Oswald were involved in anti-Castro activities in New Orleans, then your research appears to have been very selective. Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON, spends a lot of time on the individuals and groups who were involved in the assassination. You might want to take some time studying it. Neither Noel Twyman nor James Douglass nor any of those with whom I have conducted research on JFK has discovered a role for Israel in taking out JFK. You really need to do more homework.
P.S. What I meant to say about BLOODY TREASON and JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE is that both are about to appear in updated editions.
Mark Stapleton Wrote:James H. Fetzer Wrote:This is a rather odd response, Mark. I have explained where my research has taken me and you are suggesting where you think I should have come out. I have already mentioned James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, as one source that agrees with me. Another is Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON. Both books, as I understand it, are about to appear. Others include Madeleine Duncan Brown, TEXAS IN THE MORNING, Billy Sol Estes, A TEXAS LEGEND, H. Howard Hunt's "Last Confession", and other sources. An extended list of the parties that appear to have been involved would include members the Dallas Police Department and the Dallas Sheriff's Department. My research supports the conclusion that shots were fired from six locations, none of which was the 6th floor "assassin's lair". And I am not simply talking about those who had motive. Since I have acknowledged that Israel may have had motive but does not appear to have been involved, I would have thought that much would be obvious. There are many ways all of this might have played out. I am talking about how it actually took place. I am getting the sense that you want to manipulate the situation on this thread. That does not interest me. I have answered your question. It appears that I was right when I thought you were seeking to impose your opinions upon me.
It's not an odd response at all. I'm merely pointing out that some of the parties you suggest were involved couldn't have played more than bit player roles or indeed were merely sideline supporters. For example, anti-Castro Cubans and the mafia didn't have the influence within the Government, military and intelligence institutions to even go close to organising Kennedy's execution.
What I will try to show is that Israel's motive was indeed much stronger than that of any other potential conspirators, and that they had the necessary influence to co-ordinate the plot at the highest level and ensure its success and that of the subsequent coverup.
You haven't given any broad outline of the plot and nominated who, in your opinion, was responsible at the highest levels. You've just thrown a whole lot of suspicious groups together and claimed there is evidence implicating all of them, which I'm not doubting.
As for seeking to impose my opinions on you, isn't that what debate is about? Didn't the authors of the books you cited do the same? All I'm asking is that you hear my arguments. You say Israel 'does not appear to have been involved' but what are you looking for? Guys with the word 'Mossad' emblazened on their lapels?
In any case, I hope you don't tune out because I think a person with your impressive credentials is more worthy than that. In the next few days I'll conclude the earlier post but at the moment I'm a bit concerned about the lack of response from the admins about Bob Ringler.
Posts: 3,965
Threads: 211
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Sep 2008
Good Afternoon, Jim,
Can you provide details on the updated editions of the Douglass and Twyman volumes?
Many thanks,
Charles
Posts: 1,141
Threads: 86
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2009
Charles, Here's what I turn up about the new Kindle Edition (2010):
Bloody Treason: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy (Kindle Edition)
by Noel H. Twyman (Author)
5.0 out of 5 stars See all reviews (1 customer review)
Digital List Price: $9.99 What's this?
Kindle Price: $9.99 & includes wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
Text-to-Speech: Enabled
Kindle Books
* Kindle Books include wireless delivery - read your book on your Kindle within a minute of placing your order.
* Don't have a Kindle? Get yours here.
Product Description
BLOODY TREASON was first published in 1997. The author, Noel H. Twyman, received the JFK New Frontier Award for his work. The book is now out of print and considered a collector’s item selling for hundreds of dollars. It has been praised as the cornerstone book of the JFK assassination and as the best on the subject by Mary Ferrell, FBI Agent James Sibert, and numerous writers and teachers. It includes first-time interviews with critical witnesses and the most relevant documents released by the Assassination Records Review Board as authorized by Congress. It includes more than 160 photos and exhibits. The result is a major revision of history, one that will forever change our understanding of how and why John F. Kennedy was assassinated.
The author takes us deep into the labyrinth of the JFK assassination plot and reveals the shocking tradecraft of covert political assassinations practiced by the U.S. government during the 1960s. He explains how these programs tragically backfired, resulting in the assassination of President Kennedy.
BLOODY TREASON advances the understanding of the JFK assassination to an entirely new level. The shocking revelation of corruption and betrayal in high places is without precedent in U.S. History.
After numerous requests from students and researchers for an electronic version of BLOODY TREASON, the author welcomes the opportunity to reach a new and larger audience through the magic of E-Books, and to correct some errors or omissions in the original edition, and to report major new work that has buttressed his original conclusions.
A new Appendix F discusses startling new evidence of involvement of CIA’s National Photo Interpretation Center with President Lyndon Johnson in the alteration of the Zapruder film. A new Appendix G discusses Douglas P. Horne’s new book Inside the Assassination Records Review Board.
BLOODY TREASON is also available in MobiPocket for downloading to your personal computer.
Product Details
* Format: Kindle Edition
* File Size: 5725 KB
* Publisher: Laurel Publishing (January 16, 2010)
* Sold by: Amazon Digital Services
* Language: English
* ASIN: B0035G09FW
* Average Customer Review: 5.0 out of 5 stars
* Amazon.com Sales Rank: #74,996 in Kindle Store
Posts: 3,965
Threads: 211
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Sep 2008
Thanks, Jim.
I know about the Kindle version, but I am striving to remain Kindle-free.
For is it not better to light a kindle than curse the darkness?
Can you shed any light on the Douglass matter?
Yours in paper and cloth,
Charles
Posts: 1,141
Threads: 86
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2009
As soon as I know more, I will post it here. Charles. Thanks for asking.
Charles Drago Wrote:Thanks, Jim.
I know about the Kindle version, but I am striving to remain Kindle-free.
For is it not better to light a kindle than curse the darkness?
Can you shed any light on the Douglass matter?
Yours in paper and cloth,
Charles
Mark Stapleton
Unregistered
Dawn Meredith Wrote:Bob was put on moderation. Myra or Magda can better explain this than can I.
The function is not working properly, so while not banned, and because of a sanfu with the software, he is unable to post. This will be rectified as soon as possilbe, by one of the admins.
Dawn
Thanks Dawn. Magda has sent me a message explaining it.
Mark Stapleton
Unregistered
James H. Fetzer Wrote:OK. Your knowledge of the role of the anti-Castro Cubans appears to be quite limited. They were extremely important politically at the time and had extensive connections with both the mob and the agency in ops on the island. A good book related to this is THE ZENITH SECRET by Bradley Ayers, an Army captain on loan to the CIA from May 1963 to December 1964. Indeed, the anti-Castro Cubans have been politically potent ever since in affecting US politics because of the important role of the State of Florida in elections. The embargo against Cuba, for example, would have ended long ago, were it not for the political clout of that community. If you know no more about Alpha 66, for example, or that Banister and Ferrie and Oswald were involved in anti-Castro activities in New Orleans, then your research appears to have been very selective. Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON, spends a lot of time on the individuals and groups who were involved in the assassination. You might want to take some time studying it. Neither Noel Twyman nor James Douglass nor any of those with whom I have conducted research on JFK has discovered a role for Israel in taking out JFK. You really need to do more homework.
I'm trying hard James but you're not making it easy.
You focus on the Anti-Castros and the mafia but those groups didn't make any tangible gains from JFK's death, relative to what Israel gained, and if their motive was revenge it pales compared to Israel's motive. Why do you think Israeli involvement so inconcievable?
What I would like to know is your understanding of who planned it and why, without reference to the works of others. You stated in an earlier post that LBJ and JEH were the principals. Is that your belief? If so, how has the coverup remained in place so long after their deaths? How did they get the military to botch the autopsy? Who was murdering all the witnesses and other potential threats in the years after the assassination and why has the media been so hostile to investigations and investigators since 1963?
|
