People Could Have Planted Bombs In the World Trade Center Without Anyone Noticing

[Kyle Burnett]

What I've seen of expulsions of pressurized air from collapsing floor mass looks like this:



Much less dense with rubble at the start, and never as dense as those from the towers, even though those buildings were mostly concrete rather than steel. Also in contrast to the towers, those Verinage show no expulsions well below the primary plane of destruction. I don't suppose you know of any examples of pressurized air from collapsing floor mass which looks more comparable to the expulsions from the towers and those of undisputed explosive demolitions, do you?

[Jeffrey Orling]

Those were verinage. They had no internal walls and contents... no tough skin with penetrations for the air to "squeeze through into jets".

The towers were full of light weight friable material.. ceiling tiles, GWB and had a tough skin with small window penetrations for the air to squeeze through. Hello Bernoulli.

The confining steel facade created the phenomena to some extent with it's narrow windows.

Different animals... yet the first collapse you see a strong single lateral pressure pulse of compressed air...

No examples of similar occupied buildings collapsing... or probably unoccupied or even dissimilar... collapsing. Buildings don't collapse unless something goes radically wrong.

[Lauren Johnson]

Your argument solves problems you have with the CD theory: its cost is huge, the mechanics create complexity that can cause things to go wrong, too many people involved (somebody would have talked), etc.

I never put any stock into such arguments, as massive covert projects like MK-ULTRA and Operation Gladio went on for decades before being exposed. Such long running conspiracies makes a one-off project like rigging a few buildings full of explosives look like child's play by comparison. Granted, my main contention with the notion that steel framed highrises could come down so quickly and completely without having being rigged with explosives throughout them is the utter lack of any examples to demonstrate as much.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I was paraphrasing Orling. I quite agree with you that complex military conspiracies as was 9/11 can very well be carried out and kept quiet. I would surmise that the team that carried this out was years in the making--carefully selected, trained, and get this: some would be told that when volunteering, they will be placed under hypnosis and given the post-hypnotic suggestion that they would will not remember what was done under hypnosis. Why? The person could be assured he or she would not need to be eliminated after the job.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Lauren,

I think you have a future as a novelist... what a fertile imagination! What a great idea... hypnotize mechanics, managers... have them "sleep walk" through the conspiracy and then wake them up so they haven no recollection of their crimes! And of course no way to account for their "missing time".... a minor detail.

The "conspiracy" of the military industrial complex may have many hidden details... but it is carried out and "sanctioned" by the government. In fact it is more or less THE shadow government and is responsible for action and policy initiatives for "the empire". The empire is the free market corporate state and its understood need for resources and low wage markets wherever they are. National borders mean nothing to these people... are in it for money and power. Nations and especially democracies (expressing the will of the people) which are meant to control the policies of those are nations are simply minor hindrances. This conspiracy installs foreign leaders who cooperate... of course are essentially bought of with enormous wealth... witness Marcos, Mubarek, Duvalier, Shah, House of Saud, etc. or any dictator they set up and keep in power. How easy it is to control with bribes. This process is pretty much established. And our roll over government sends these thugs all the weapons they need to oppress their own people and maintain their positions of power.

911 comes off as just one of their tricks to manipulate the American public and their "democratically" elected officials to "get with the program"... and they did in spades. Right after 911 the flags came out, the recruitment was up and we were off on the never ending war with all the support and cash flow into the MIC they dreamed about. And once in, even with these nonsense wars producing nothing but death, destruction and profit and a weary population who wanted out... we are told we can't leave, we have some mission, if we leave terrorism will spread yadda yadda and the sheeple do nothing.

The people of allowed their "democracy" to become the sham it is because they trusted the government, believed in its founding documents and loft principles and that the government was THEIRS. They haven't come to the realization that a coup is in place and the facade of the democracy is what they hide behind and all those elected are essentially blackmailed, bribed and bought out by greed and ego to do the bidding (with relish) for the MIC. But the people are getting there. They just don't know what to do about it because the system is no longer capable of responding to or representing their needs or interests of the people. The people are the now the captures of MIC, essentially living in a neo feudal state run by greedy power freaks... with plenty of people who will gladly take the offer and run the empire for them and keep their mouths shut and enjoy the amount of wealth and power they are given...

[Jeffrey Orling]

Kyle,

Where did all the air inside the towers go?

[Lauren Johnson]

Lauren,

I think you have a future as a novelist... what a fertile imagination! What a great idea... hypnotize mechanics, managers... have them "sleep walk" through the conspiracy and then wake them up so they haven no recollection of their crimes! And of course no way to account for their "missing time".... a minor detail.

Jeff, The joke is on you. DPF is where I learned about this. The RFK assassination and Sirhan Sirhan is the poster child for this phenomenon. I do recall reading an article about operatives who were sent on missions who think they had their memories erased. Their memory treatments were starting to wear off.

[Lauren Johnson]

[Kyle Burnett]

Hello Bernoulli.

Bernoulli doesn't explain the issue of density, while explosives do explain such dense clouds of rubble.

Buildings don't collapse unless something goes radically wrong.

No, in reality, sometimes buildings collapse when things go as planned.

Where did all the air inside the towers go?

Much of it was blasted out by explosives.

I would surmise that the team that carried this out was years in the making--carefully selected, trained, and get this: some would be told that when volunteering, they will be placed under hypnosis and given the post-hypnotic suggestion that they would will not remember what was done under hypnosis. Why? The person could be assured he or she would not need to be eliminated after the job.

I wouldn't be shocked if given a proper investigation with full access to the remaining evidence and full subpena power that turned out proven true, though I will be shocked if we ever do get any such investigation. I also figure that most of the explosives were likely disguised to be things which had a reasonable explanation for being installed throughout office buildings, and were installed by people who didn't realize they were involved with anything nefarious. Such people might now suspect that they unwittingly rigged the buildings to come down, but they wouldn't have any way to actually prove as much.

[Lauren Johnson]

Ryan's analysis is "case closed" for explosives in WTC 7. Given that, it makes the case stronger for explosives in WTC 1 and 2. You really need to successfully argue against #47.

[Ed Jewett]

Lauren,

I think you have a future as a novelist... what a fertile imagination! What a great idea... hypnotize mechanics, managers... have them "sleep walk" through the conspiracy and then wake them up so they haven no recollection of their crimes! And of course no way to account for their "missing time".... a minor detail.

Jeff, The joke is on you. DPF is where I learned about this. The RFK assassination and Sirhan Sirhan is the poster child for this phenomenon. I do recall reading an article about operatives who were sent on missions who think they had their memories erased. Their memory treatments were starting to wear off.

Just a fast snapshot:


"Lieut. Cmdr. Dr. Thomas Narut the U.S. Navy psychologistclaimed before a NATO conference of psychologists in Oslo that [the Office of Naval intelligence] had been using convicted murderers in a bizarre scheme to create the perfect commando. These were men for military prisons who were sent to various US embassies abroad after having been "treated" with behavior modification techniques and turned into assassins "who could kill on command." Narut was later reprimanded by the Navy and forced to retract his statement, but the cat was already out of the bag. [ See, in addition to the discussion thread linked below, the original citation which was an article entitled "Mind Control", written by Harry V Martin and David Caul, and published in the Napa Valley Sentinel, AugustNovember, 1991.]

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...ight=Narut


"... Somehow we tend to disbelieve that all of this could be taking place today and in our own country or under the supervision of our government agencies, (even though we imported many Nazi medical scientists as part of Operation Paperclip and other operations after World War II). This type of blindness could only exist in a culture where we have begun to believe our own propaganda, since it is so much more attractive than the awful, the heartbreaking, truth."

The above, other than the DPF thread (one of many relevant) is from Sinister Forces: a grimoire of American political witchcraft (Book 3: The Manson Secret), Peter Levenda, TrineDay 2006.