The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science?

[David Josephs]

Hopefully this can help raise awareness ofthe different behaviors we've all experienced.
[B]Our POV has to be maintained -we are NOT attempting to PROVE the existence of a conspiracy... a foregoneconclusion....
all we are doing now isidentifying the players and the tactics... with a good chunk of those tacticslisted right here.[/B]


1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internetforum
2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent)
5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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[Greg R Parker]

Just to make sure everyone understands Parker's position here.

He says that the "quack Philben," who somehow later became chief of staff of Dallas Memorial Hospital, somehow faked a tonsillectomy so well that "Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed."

Let's separate (and straighten out) my speculation from the facts shall we?

I never claimed he faked a tonsillectomy. I listed it as a possibility which I didn't particular find all that appealing. The other - yes - is speculation that I think is plausible.

Now put that aside and consider the FACTS that this speculation is based upon.

Fact One: Marguerite listed Philben on an insurance application as having performed a tonsillectomy on Lee.

Fact Two: Philben could not LEGALLY have performed such an operation in 1945.

Fact Three: There are no medical records showing that Lee ever had a tonsillectomy - despite such records being readily available for the mastoidectomy.

Fact Four: Whatever hospitals Philben worked in from the late '70s when Osteopathy became semi-legitimate due to a severe MD shortage is totally irrelevant to the situation in 1945.

Now compare those facts with your "facts"... which amounts to Marguerite would have known her son had a tonsillectomy because of his cut throat. And just so I am not accused of falsely summarizing your quote, here it is: "A mother doesn't know when her young son's throat has been cut open?"

Please note that I have been admonished by an admin for categorizing your "fact" as moronic. So instead, I will simply allow readers to make up there own minds. Or perhaps you can provide a cite for the tonsils being removed through an incision in the throat? That would teach me a lesson, wouldn't it, Jim?

Just think of the possibilities. You could cite the missing throat scar as another pillar in H & L Fortress!!!!

[Bob Prudhomme]

Just to make sure everyone understands Parker's position here.

He says that the "quack Philben," who somehow later became chief of staff of Dallas Memorial Hospital, somehow faked a tonsillectomy so well that "Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed."

Let's separate (and straighten out) my speculation from the facts shall we?

I never claimed he faked a tonsillectomy. I listed it as a possibility which I didn't particular find all that appealing. The other - yes - is speculation that I think is plausible.

Now put that aside and consider the FACTS that this speculation is based upon.

Fact One: Marguerite listed Philben on an insurance application as having performed a tonsillectomy on Lee.

Fact Two: Philben could not LEGALLY have performed such an operation in 1945.

Fact Three: There are no medical records showing that Lee ever had a tonsillectomy - despite such records being readily available for the mastoidectomy.

Fact Four: Whatever hospitals Philben worked in from the late '70s when Osteopathy became semi-legitimate due to a severe MD shortage is totally irrelevant to the situation in 1945.

Now compare those facts with your "facts"... which amounts to Marguerite would have known her son had a tonsillectomy because of his cut throat. And just so I am not accused of falsely summarizing your quote, here it is: "A mother doesn't know when her young son's throat has been cut open?"

Please note that I have been admonished by an admin for categorizing your "fact" as moronic. So instead, I will simply allow readers to make up there own minds. Or perhaps you can provide a cite for the tonsils being removed through an incision in the throat? That would teach me a lesson, wouldn't it, Jim?

Just think of the possibilities. You could cite the missing throat scar as another pillar in H & L Fortress!!!!

Some people just don't know when they are licked.

[Greg R Parker]

Just to make sure everyone understands Parker's position here.

He says that the "quack Philben," who somehow later became chief of staff of Dallas Memorial Hospital, somehow faked a tonsillectomy so well that "Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed."

Let's separate (and straighten out) my speculation from the facts shall we?

I never claimed he faked a tonsillectomy. I listed it as a possibility which I didn't particular find all that appealing. The other - yes - is speculation that I think is plausible.

Now put that aside and consider the FACTS that this speculation is based upon.

Fact One: Marguerite listed Philben on an insurance application as having performed a tonsillectomy on Lee.

Fact Two: Philben could not LEGALLY have performed such an operation in 1945.

Fact Three: There are no medical records showing that Lee ever had a tonsillectomy - despite such records being readily available for the mastoidectomy.

Fact Four: Whatever hospitals Philben worked in from the late '70s when Osteopathy became semi-legitimate due to a severe MD shortage is totally irrelevant to the situation in 1945.

Now compare those facts with your "facts"... which amounts to Marguerite would have known her son had a tonsillectomy because of his cut throat. And just so I am not accused of falsely summarizing your quote, here it is: "A mother doesn't know when her young son's throat has been cut open?"

Please note that I have been admonished by an admin for categorizing your "fact" as moronic. So instead, I will simply allow readers to make up there own minds. Or perhaps you can provide a cite for the tonsils being removed through an incision in the throat? That would teach me a lesson, wouldn't it, Jim?

Just think of the possibilities. You could cite the missing throat scar as another pillar in H & L Fortress!!!!

Some people just don't know when they are licked.

Yes. well, I think any even semi sentient life-forms can easily spot that the arguments against me so far, that

a) tonsillectomies are done through an incision in the throat, and
b) that Philben being attached to mainstream hospital/s in the 70s and 80s proves he could legally perform a medical operation in 1945


certainly trumps anything I've said!

[Don Jeffries]

Try googling "fake tonsillectomies." No relevant results come up. I'm sorry, but postulating that a doctor faked an operation, as evidently the only way to explain a set of tonsils that shouldn't have been there, is about as credible as inventing a "bunched up coat" theory to explain an inconvenient wound location. Not far behind is suggesting the extremely rare phenomenon of tonsils growing back.

I am at a loss to understand what Dr. Philben's motive would have been, to pretend to remove tonsils when he actually didn't. Greg's premise smacks of desperation, not logic.

Again, I question some of Armstrong's theory. But I have always respected his invaluable research, and there should be no question, in any legitimate researcher's mind at this point, that someone put time and effort into impersonating Oswald in an incriminating way, in the time period just before the assassination. Trying to diminish the significance of these reports does nothing but help keep the impossible official fairy tale on life support.

There are too many researchers, who profess to disbelieve the lone-nut narrative, who nevertheless insist upon questioning the witnesses who first provided the best evidence for conspiracy, and were the impetus for all the original critics who destroyed the official case. If we can't rely on these witnesses, then we have to look at the official "evidence," which was largely mishandled or destroyed. The witnesses who insisted upon reporting information that contradicted the Oswald-did-it myth provided some of the best indicators of conspiracy.

In recent years, many supposedly pro-conspiracy types have tried to repudiate the witnesses who reported seeing the limo slow down or stop, those who saw a bullet hole in the windshield, the medical staff at Parkland who described a huge wound in the back of JFK's head, as well as individual witnesses like Roger Craig, Richard Carr, James Worrell and others who gave testimony that conflicted with the official story. Many even believe Steven Witt is the umbrella man, and downplay any significance this enigmatic figure might have had. Lots of researchers completely accept that both Weitzman and Boone mistakenly identified the rifle found on the sixth floor. It's this kind of collective swing in the research community that I call "neo-con," or neo-conspiracy belief.

I didn't mean to derail this thread, but in my view Greg Parker's curious postulation of a "fake" tonsillectomy to explain unwanted anomalies in the record is vintage "neo-con" thinking. There is no reason to cast aside the credible reports of someone impersonating Oswald, and if you're trying to debate Armstrong's theories, you need to come up with something at least semi-plausible, and not quite this ridiculous.

[David Josephs]

Fact Two: Philben could not LEGALLY have performed such an operation in 1945.

I saw this last post of his and decided enough again was enough...

In 10 minutes I was able to find that Dr Philben was indeed able to perform tonsillectomies... starting as early as 1907...

DO's (Doctors of Osteopathy) are doctors and surgeons just like any other doctor or surgeon...

Can we now please have enough of Mr P and his pathetic excuses for FACTS which are no more than his poor excuses for opinions which are neither researched, informed
or worth the electrons wasted on posting them.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/onlin...cles/sdo01

The first Texas Medical Practice Act, passed in 1907, permitted the licensing of doctors of osteopathy. John F. Bailey, D.O., of Waco was appointed by Governor Thomas M. Campbell as the first osteopathic physician on the composite State Board of Medical Examiners. In 1901, during the group's second meeting in Fort Worth, the name was changed to Texas Osteopathic Association. The name was changed again in 1930 to Texas Association of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons, and the association was first incorporated in 1946 in Dallas County. Its purpose was to support the science of osteopathic medicine. On September 14, 1971, the name was changed to Texas Osteopathic Medical Association.


http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/300...30049.html
Initial licensing of medical practitioners in Texas began in 1837 with the creation of the Board of Medical Censors by the 2nd Congress of the Republic of Texas. It was abolished in 1848 by the 2nd Legislature of the State of Texas.
In 1873 (13th Texas Legislature, Chapter 55), and again in 1876 (15th Legislature, Chapter 140) legislation was passed which directed the presiding judge of each district court to create a three-member district Board of Medical Examiners for the licensing or certification of medical practitioners in each district. A state-wide board was not re-established until the passage of the Medical Practices Act in 1901 (House Bill 173, 27th Texas Legislature), creating three medical boards: the Board of Medical Examiners, the Board of Eclectic Medical Examiners, and the Board of Homeopathic Medical Examiners. Each board had nine members. This law specified "that no member shall be a professor or teacher in any medical school."
In 1907, these three boards were supplanted by the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners, established by the 30th Legislature (Senate Bill 26) to administer the examination and licensing of physicians and surgeons, prescribe their qualifications, and provide procedures for the registration and revocation of licenses.


http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/...002020.htm
A service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
Doctor of osteopathic medicine

A doctor of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) is a physician licensed to practice medicine, perform surgery, and prescribe medication.


Alternative names

Osteopathic physician
Information

Like all allopathic physicians (or M.D.s), osteopathic physicians complete 4 years of medical school and can choose to practice in any speciality of medicine. However, osteopathic physicians receive an additional 300 - 500 hours in the study of hands-on manual medicine and the body's musculoskeletal system.
Osteopathic physicians hold to the priciple that a patient's history of illness and physical trauma are written into the body's structure. The osteopathic physician's highly developed sense of touch allows the physician to feel (palpitate) the patient's "living anatomy" (the flow of fluids, motion and texture of tissues, and structural makeup).
Like M.D.s, osteopathic physicians are licensed at the state level. Osteopathic physicians who wish to specialize may become "board certified" (in much the same manner as M.D.s) by completing a 2- to 6-year residency within the specilaty area and passing the board certification exams.
D.O.s practice in all specialties of medicine, ranging from emergency medicine and cardiovascular surgery to psychiatry and geriatrics. A majority of osteopathic doctors use many of the medical and surgical treatments that are used by other medical doctors.

[Anthony Thorne]

David Josephs, please focus your commentary on Greg's arguments rather than dragging the discussion into 'is he cointelpro?' territory. The DPF has more cause than most to be wary of disruptors and agitators - Greg is neither - he simply disagrees with some (most?) of the Harvey and Lee evidence. His recent book argues for, not against, a conspiracy, and arguments for and against the subject of this thread should be able to stand on their own merits. I get that some here dispute or disagree with some of his arguments (his book is nuanced, well-argued and the first volume doesn't really go near much of the Harvey and Lee stuff for much of its length) but reducing this somewhat blustery back-and-forth argument to a simple accusation of cointelpro does no-one any favours here. I get that you guys have a serious ongoing disagreement here, but he's not cointelpro. I'll jump back in if anyone thinks I'm putting up a rogue smokescreen or something to protect a fellow Aussie researcher.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Fact Two: Philben could not LEGALLY have performed such an operation in 1945.

I saw this last post of his and decided enough again was enough...

In 10 minutes I was able to find that Dr Philben was indeed able to perform tonsillectomies... starting as early as 1907...

DO's (Doctors of Osteopathy) are doctors and surgeons just like any other doctor or surgeon...

Can we now please have enough his Mr P and his pathetic excuses for FACTS which are no more than his poor excuses for opinions which are neither researched, informed
or worth the electrons wasted on posting them.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/onlin...cles/sdo01

The first Texas Medical Practice Act, passed in 1907, permitted the licensing of doctors of osteopathy. John F. Bailey, D.O., of Waco was appointed by Governor Thomas M. Campbell as the first osteopathic physician on the composite State Board of Medical Examiners. In 1901, during the group's second meeting in Fort Worth, the name was changed to Texas Osteopathic Association. The name was changed again in 1930 to Texas Association of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons, and the association was first incorporated in 1946 in Dallas County. Its purpose was to support the science of osteopathic medicine. On September 14, 1971, the name was changed to Texas Osteopathic Medical Association.


http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/300...30049.html
Initial licensing of medical practitioners in Texas began in 1837 with the creation of the Board of Medical Censors by the 2nd Congress of the Republic of Texas. It was abolished in 1848 by the 2nd Legislature of the State of Texas.
In 1873 (13th Texas Legislature, Chapter 55), and again in 1876 (15th Legislature, Chapter 140) legislation was passed which directed the presiding judge of each district court to create a three-member district Board of Medical Examiners for the licensing or certification of medical practitioners in each district. A state-wide board was not re-established until the passage of the Medical Practices Act in 1901 (House Bill 173, 27th Texas Legislature), creating three medical boards: the Board of Medical Examiners, the Board of Eclectic Medical Examiners, and the Board of Homeopathic Medical Examiners. Each board had nine members. This law specified "that no member shall be a professor or teacher in any medical school."
In 1907, these three boards were supplanted by the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners, established by the 30th Legislature (Senate Bill 26) to administer the examination and licensing of physicians and surgeons, prescribe their qualifications, and provide procedures for the registration and revocation of licenses.


http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/...002020.htm
A service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
Doctor of osteopathic medicine

A doctor of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) is a physician licensed to practice medicine, perform surgery, and prescribe medication.


Alternative names

Osteopathic physician
Information

Like all allopathic physicians (or M.D.s), osteopathic physicians complete 4 years of medical school and can choose to practice in any speciality of medicine. However, osteopathic physicians receive an additional 300 - 500 hours in the study of hands-on manual medicine and the body's musculoskeletal system.
Osteopathic physicians hold to the priciple that a patient's history of illness and physical trauma are written into the body's structure. The osteopathic physician's highly developed sense of touch allows the physician to feel (palpitate) the patient's "living anatomy" (the flow of fluids, motion and texture of tissues, and structural makeup).
Like M.D.s, osteopathic physicians are licensed at the state level. Osteopathic physicians who wish to specialize may become "board certified" (in much the same manner as M.D.s) by completing a 2- to 6-year residency within the specilaty area and passing the board certification exams.
D.O.s practice in all specialties of medicine, ranging from emergency medicine and cardiovascular surgery to psychiatry and geriatrics. A majority of osteopathic doctors use many of the medical and surgical treatments that are used by other medical doctors.

Good work, Dave. I found another article that pretty much parallels this information.

[Don Jeffries]

Anthony,

You don't have to accuse someone of being part of COINTELPRO to question their arguments. In this case, Greg Parker is making an argument that would make David Von Pein blush. When faced with the ugly reality of tonsils that shouldn't logically be there, it is ludicrous to seriously suggest that the explanation is a fake tonsillectomy.

Again, if you want to question Armstrong's work in its totality, that's fine. But you can't expect to be taken seriously when you persist in doubting the validity of this doctor, when David Josephs has gone to extraordinary lengths to refute your contentions.

[David Josephs]

David Josephs, please focus your commentary on Greg's arguments rather than dragging the discussion into 'is he cointelpro?' territory. The DPF has more cause than most to be wary of disruptors and agitators - Greg is neither - he simply disagrees with some (most?) of the Harvey and Lee evidence. His recent book argues for, not against, a conspiracy, and arguments for and against the subject of this thread should be able to stand on their own merits. I get that some here dispute or disagree with some of his arguments (his book is nuanced, well-argued and the first volume doesn't really go near much of the Harvey and Lee stuff for much of its length) but reducing this somewhat blustery back-and-forth argument to a simple accusation of cointelpro does no-one any favours here. I get that you guys have a serious ongoing disagreement here, but he's not cointelpro. I'll jump back in if anyone thinks I'm putting up a rogue smokescreen or something to protect a fellow Aussie researcher.

Mr Thorne... when someone comes here TELLING us what are facts and what are not... and has yet to be right once...
while making it a point to discuss tonsils ad nauseum on a forum dedicated to the deep political implications of why the FBI produced reams of fraudulent data with regards to the assassination of the president..

::evilpenguin::



I hear there are openings for moderators on Mr P's forum... you'll do just fine.

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