The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science?

[Greg R Parker]

::thumbsdown::

Let's go back to the beginning.

From "Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War"
On April 17, 1945, Marguerite took a life insurance policy out on 5 year old Lee. On the application, Marguerite declared that Lee had undergone a tonsillectomy at the hands of a Dr. Philben on Jan 17 of that same year. Oswald's Marine records actually show that he was treated for tonsillitis on Jan 8, 1957 and again on May 23, 1958. These records have been used in the book "Harvey & Lee" as evidence for the theory within which suggests that the CIA merged the identities of two young boys with the eventual aim of sending one, pretending to be the other, to the USSR. For the sake of keeping things simple, the author refers to one as "Lee" (American born) and the other as "Harvey" (Hungarian born). The book tells us that it was Lee who had the tonsillectomy, and it was Lee who joined the Marines. The switch occurred, according to the theory, in December, 1958 when "Harvey" replaced "Lee" and began preparation for a false defection.

The first problem here is that the Marine records show Lee being treated for tonsillitis before the alleged switch took place. The second problem is that there are no actual medical records showing Lee Oswald ever really did have a tonsillectomy. The third problem is that even if Lee did have his tonsils removed, they can and sometimes do grow back.

1) You are still to address how Oswald had tonsillitis in the Marines PRIOR to the time-frame Armstrong says the switch was made.

2) You are still to fully grasp that tonsils can grow back. As you can see from the book, it has always been my position that it DOESN'T MATTER if he had his tonsils out because the can grow back. That it is more logical to some of you that his tonsillitis in the Marines indicates a second person, rather than the tonsils simply having grown back - especially since the timeline presented is impossible - is indicative of your steadfast and willful blindness.

Here is a little info for you, sport.
If you know someone whose tonsils have grown back, they probably had their tonsils removed many years ago. There was a period of time when the method used to remove the tonsils made it more likely for them to grow back. This method, which involved leaving the outer portion of the tonsils intact in order to reduce pain and decrease the risk of bleeding, is no longer used.
​http://ent.about.com/od/entdisorderssu/f...ectomy.htm

You are also yet to produce one piece of evidence that a tonsillectomy was performed on Oswald - let alone that Philben "cut his throat" to take the tonsils out as your side-kick claimed.

As with all your previous attempts to claim victory, this one is premature and merely an attempt to blow smoke and hope everyone will agree with you, and I'll be sent packing so you can go back to blathering about "false minutia" while carrying on a "detailed discussion and analysis of the H & L evidence" without having any of it questioned. I mean... who would dare....?

[Greg R Parker]

Greg,

You obviously believe strongly that Oswald didn't have a tonsillectomy. So, what would be the rationale for any doctor to either "fake" one or do something else in lieu of one? Oswald wasn't yet a patsy in the making, so why would any doctor have a motive to do something other than perform a simple tonsillectomy, if that is what he was supposed to be doing? And what mother would not understand what was being done to her child? As a father, I can't imagine being uninformed about the nature of a medical procedure being done to one of my children.

I realize that nothing is simple in politics, and thus I don't often buy into the "Occam's Razor" line of thinking. But on this issue, it's obviously very simple to conclude that this little boy had a minor operation, and the fact that there appears no evidence of this on the adult, given all the anomalies and distortions in the official record, indicates they weren't the same person.

Sick of telling you to quit your miss-characterizations.

[Greg R Parker]

My very first post here in the JFK section was a valid, polite and sensible request for David Josephs to delineate the meaning of his rather odd term "false minutia" and to explain how "minutia" could be left out - or else exactly how it might fit - in the type of "detailed discussion and analysis of H & L evidence" that he was calling for in that particular thread. I can say in all honesty, all I wanted was to know what his limits were so that I could give him that very discussion he wanted.

That post however, was immediately categorized by Jim Hargrove as a "dramatic debut" and an attempt to start a fight.

I admit I don't take the type of shit that's been thrown lying down and have hurled some back... but since attempting to discuss various claims made by Armstrong, I have been told I am a bully (really? One person is able to bully a mob as tight as the James gang?), that I have not produced any evidence, only opinion, that I am an idiot and, that I am part of some cointelpro operation.

I have also been taken to task by a mod - not for anything near as shitty as any of the above - but for daring to point out that a moronic statement was... well... moronic.

I have also had Don Jeffries doing what he does best - miss-characterizing my posts and then seeing a real voice of reason (instead of Jeffries piss-poor impersonation of one), Anthony Thorne, attacked in the usual vile and cowardly manner DJ seems to relish producing.

Meanwhile the only thing cutting through all the bluster from the "other side" has been their occasional laughable attempts to claim some sort of victory. It seems to happen in every other post. The reality is that the ONLY piece of worthwhile information to come from "the other side" has been DJ's belated find that Nut Country lived up to it's name by accrediting these medical charlatans from the early 20th century.

Good man DJ, you got me.

I was relying on this story from '72 and the line saying osteopaths are "no longer being blackballed by the AMA..."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0Qp...%2C1779246

But it is not the end of the story.

This from a pediatrics website

What is a Pediatric Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO)?
A pediatric doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO) is a pediatrician who has studied medicine at an osteopathic medical school and has gone on to complete a pediatric residency.
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/f...icine.aspx

So Philben had to complete a residency in order to be called a Pediatric Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

According his obit, he left Dallas in 1939 or thereabouts in order to complete his residency at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy. His obit continues that he did not return to Dallas until 1947 - 2 years AFTER the alleged surgery.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi...d=24833435

This is what the obit actually says, Greg:

"He then moved to Pennsylvania and completed his residency at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy. He returned to Dallas and founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947."

The obit does not say he returned to Dallas in 1947, it says he founded the Grove Medical Centre Clinic in 1947. If his residency began in 1939, and ended in 1947, that would mean he served an eight year residency. Most doctors do not even go to medical school for that long, and residencies are shorter than medical school time. In fact, here in Canada, most doctors can go to medical school AND complete a residency in seven years. But then, I suppose you'll tell us next that Canadian doctors are not qualified to practice, either.

No Bob. It does not say that.

This would say that. "He returned to Dallas, and founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947." or "He returned to Dallas where he founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947." or "He returned to Dallas and later founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947."

As written, it indicates the two things happened at about the same time.

What the obit doesn't say is that he finished his residency in 1947. You seriously believe he could not have finished it earlier and hung out in Philadelphia for a while?

[Bob Prudhomme]

My very first post here in the JFK section was a valid, polite and sensible request for David Josephs to delineate the meaning of his rather odd term "false minutia" and to explain how "minutia" could be left out - or else exactly how it might fit - in the type of "detailed discussion and analysis of H & L evidence" that he was calling for in that particular thread. I can say in all honesty, all I wanted was to know what his limits were so that I could give him that very discussion he wanted.

That post however, was immediately categorized by Jim Hargrove as a "dramatic debut" and an attempt to start a fight.

I admit I don't take the type of shit that's been thrown lying down and have hurled some back... but since attempting to discuss various claims made by Armstrong, I have been told I am a bully (really? One person is able to bully a mob as tight as the James gang?), that I have not produced any evidence, only opinion, that I am an idiot and, that I am part of some cointelpro operation.

I have also been taken to task by a mod - not for anything near as shitty as any of the above - but for daring to point out that a moronic statement was... well... moronic.

I have also had Don Jeffries doing what he does best - miss-characterizing my posts and then seeing a real voice of reason (instead of Jeffries piss-poor impersonation of one), Anthony Thorne, attacked in the usual vile and cowardly manner DJ seems to relish producing.

Meanwhile the only thing cutting through all the bluster from the "other side" has been their occasional laughable attempts to claim some sort of victory. It seems to happen in every other post. The reality is that the ONLY piece of worthwhile information to come from "the other side" has been DJ's belated find that Nut Country lived up to it's name by accrediting these medical charlatans from the early 20th century.

Good man DJ, you got me.

I was relying on this story from '72 and the line saying osteopaths are "no longer being blackballed by the AMA..."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0Qp...%2C1779246

But it is not the end of the story.

This from a pediatrics website

What is a Pediatric Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO)?
A pediatric doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO) is a pediatrician who has studied medicine at an osteopathic medical school and has gone on to complete a pediatric residency.
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/f...icine.aspx

So Philben had to complete a residency in order to be called a Pediatric Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

According his obit, he left Dallas in 1939 or thereabouts in order to complete his residency at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy. His obit continues that he did not return to Dallas until 1947 - 2 years AFTER the alleged surgery.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi...d=24833435

This is what the obit actually says, Greg:

"He then moved to Pennsylvania and completed his residency at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy. He returned to Dallas and founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947."

The obit does not say he returned to Dallas in 1947, it says he founded the Grove Medical Centre Clinic in 1947. If his residency began in 1939, and ended in 1947, that would mean he served an eight year residency. Most doctors do not even go to medical school for that long, and residencies are shorter than medical school time. In fact, here in Canada, most doctors can go to medical school AND complete a residency in seven years. But then, I suppose you'll tell us next that Canadian doctors are not qualified to practice, either.

No Bob. It does not say that.

This would say that. "He returned to Dallas, and founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947." or "He returned to Dallas where he founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947." or "He returned to Dallas and later founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947."

As written, it indicates the two things happened at about the same time.

What the obit doesn't say is that he finished his residency in 1947. You seriously believe he could not have finished it earlier and hung out in Philadelphia for a while?

You are a fool, Greg, and a childish one at that.

He also could have finished his residency in three years by either 1942 or 1943, and returned to practice in Dallas in 1943.

Have you ever heard of a typical residency that took longer than 3 years to complete? Might he not have to return to Dallas in 1943 to earn a living? Is there any record of him continuing to live in Philadelphia or working in Philadelphia, following his internship?

We need proof, Greg, not your imagination.

Perhaps you should return to your forum where wild conjecture is accepted as proof.

[Greg R Parker]

My very first post here in the JFK section was a valid, polite and sensible request for David Josephs to delineate the meaning of his rather odd term "false minutia" and to explain how "minutia" could be left out - or else exactly how it might fit - in the type of "detailed discussion and analysis of H & L evidence" that he was calling for in that particular thread. I can say in all honesty, all I wanted was to know what his limits were so that I could give him that very discussion he wanted.

That post however, was immediately categorized by Jim Hargrove as a "dramatic debut" and an attempt to start a fight.

I admit I don't take the type of shit that's been thrown lying down and have hurled some back... but since attempting to discuss various claims made by Armstrong, I have been told I am a bully (really? One person is able to bully a mob as tight as the James gang?), that I have not produced any evidence, only opinion, that I am an idiot and, that I am part of some cointelpro operation.

I have also been taken to task by a mod - not for anything near as shitty as any of the above - but for daring to point out that a moronic statement was... well... moronic.

I have also had Don Jeffries doing what he does best - miss-characterizing my posts and then seeing a real voice of reason (instead of Jeffries piss-poor impersonation of one), Anthony Thorne, attacked in the usual vile and cowardly manner DJ seems to relish producing.

Meanwhile the only thing cutting through all the bluster from the "other side" has been their occasional laughable attempts to claim some sort of victory. It seems to happen in every other post. The reality is that the ONLY piece of worthwhile information to come from "the other side" has been DJ's belated find that Nut Country lived up to it's name by accrediting these medical charlatans from the early 20th century.

Good man DJ, you got me.

I was relying on this story from '72 and the line saying osteopaths are "no longer being blackballed by the AMA..."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0Qp...%2C1779246

But it is not the end of the story.

This from a pediatrics website

What is a Pediatric Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO)?
A pediatric doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO) is a pediatrician who has studied medicine at an osteopathic medical school and has gone on to complete a pediatric residency.
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/f...icine.aspx

So Philben had to complete a residency in order to be called a Pediatric Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

According his obit, he left Dallas in 1939 or thereabouts in order to complete his residency at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy. His obit continues that he did not return to Dallas until 1947 - 2 years AFTER the alleged surgery.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi...d=24833435

This is what the obit actually says, Greg:

"He then moved to Pennsylvania and completed his residency at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy. He returned to Dallas and founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947."

The obit does not say he returned to Dallas in 1947, it says he founded the Grove Medical Centre Clinic in 1947. If his residency began in 1939, and ended in 1947, that would mean he served an eight year residency. Most doctors do not even go to medical school for that long, and residencies are shorter than medical school time. In fact, here in Canada, most doctors can go to medical school AND complete a residency in seven years. But then, I suppose you'll tell us next that Canadian doctors are not qualified to practice, either.

No Bob. It does not say that.

This would say that. "He returned to Dallas, and founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947." or "He returned to Dallas where he founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947." or "He returned to Dallas and later founded the Grove Medical Center Clinic in 1947."

As written, it indicates the two things happened at about the same time.

What the obit doesn't say is that he finished his residency in 1947. You seriously believe he could not have finished it earlier and hung out in Philadelphia for a while?

You are a fool, Greg, and a childish one at that.

He also could have finished his residency in three years by either 1942 or 1943, and returned to practice in Dallas in 1943.

Have you ever heard of a typical residency that took longer than 3 years to complete? Might he not have to return to Dallas in 1943 to earn a living? Is there any record of him continuing to live in Philadelphia or working in Philadelphia, following his internship?

We need proof, Greg, not your imagination.

Perhaps you should return to your forum where wild conjecture is accepted as proof.

Someone's got their knickers all twisted because they cannot discern the proper meaning in a simple sentence.

See this is what happens with inbreeding, Billy-Bob.

[David Guyatt]

Okay guys, let's step back a bit and take some of the heat out of this thread.

Argue the facts and not the man.

[Greg R Parker]

::thumbsdown::

Let's go back to the beginning.

From "Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War"
On April 17, 1945, Marguerite took a life insurance policy out on 5 year old Lee. On the application, Marguerite declared that Lee had undergone a tonsillectomy at the hands of a Dr. Philben on Jan 17 of that same year. Oswald's Marine records actually show that he was treated for tonsillitis on Jan 8, 1957 and again on May 23, 1958. These records have been used in the book "Harvey & Lee" as evidence for the theory within which suggests that the CIA merged the identities of two young boys with the eventual aim of sending one, pretending to be the other, to the USSR. For the sake of keeping things simple, the author refers to one as "Lee" (American born) and the other as "Harvey" (Hungarian born). The book tells us that it was Lee who had the tonsillectomy, and it was Lee who joined the Marines. The switch occurred, according to the theory, in December, 1958 when "Harvey" replaced "Lee" and began preparation for a false defection.

The first problem here is that the Marine records show Lee being treated for tonsillitis before the alleged switch took place. The second problem is that there are no actual medical records showing Lee Oswald ever really did have a tonsillectomy. The third problem is that even if Lee did have his tonsils removed, they can and sometimes do grow back.

1) You are still to address how Oswald had tonsillitis in the Marines PRIOR to the time-frame Armstrong says the switch was made.

2) You are still to fully grasp that tonsils can grow back. As you can see from the book, it has always been my position that it DOESN'T MATTER if he had his tonsils out because the can grow back. That it is more logical to some of you that his tonsillitis in the Marines indicates a second person, rather than the tonsils simply having grown back - especially since the timeline presented is impossible - is indicative of your steadfast and willful blindness.

Here is a little info for you, sport.
If you know someone whose tonsils have grown back, they probably had their tonsils removed many years ago. There was a period of time when the method used to remove the tonsils made it more likely for them to grow back. This method, which involved leaving the outer portion of the tonsils intact in order to reduce pain and decrease the risk of bleeding, is no longer used.
​http://ent.about.com/od/entdisorderssu/f...ectomy.htm

You are also yet to produce one piece of evidence that a tonsillectomy was performed on Oswald - let alone that Philben "cut his throat" to take the tonsils out as your side-kick claimed.

As with all your previous attempts to claim victory, this one is premature and merely an attempt to blow smoke and hope everyone will agree with you, and I'll be sent packing so you can go back to blathering about "false minutia" while carrying on a "detailed discussion and analysis of the H & L evidence" without having any of it questioned. I mean... who would dare....?

LHO - allegedly without tonsils gets tonsillitis in Marines Jan 8, 1957.

LHO swapped with "Harvey" who apparently still had tonsils Dec, 1958.

Oops.

Seems the REAL Oswald had tonsils in the Marines, doesn't it?

And even if he did have them out when he was 5, the method then was only to PARTIALLY remove them. As his tonsils were not yet fully developed, and had not been fully removed, the chances that they grew back were actually fairly good.

Despite what posters here have been claiming.

But that is all moot if the tonsils were not taken to start with - as is any debate as to which it was because EITHER WAY, the REAL LHO had tonsils in the Marines.

[Dawn Meredith]

Greg,

You obviously believe strongly that Oswald didn't have a tonsillectomy. So, what would be the rationale for any doctor to either "fake" one or do something else in lieu of one? Oswald wasn't yet a patsy in the making, so why would any doctor have a motive to do something other than perform a simple tonsillectomy, if that is what he was supposed to be doing? And what mother would not understand what was being done to her child? As a father, I can't imagine being uninformed about the nature of a medical procedure being done to one of my children.

I realize that nothing is simple in politics, and thus I don't often buy into the "Occam's Razor" line of thinking. But on this issue, it's obviously very simple to conclude that this little boy had a minor operation, and the fact that there appears no evidence of this on the adult, given all the anomalies and distortions in the official record, indicates they weren't the same person.

The voice of reason returns!!! Thank you Don.
Also I am noticing that Greg keeps starting new threads on this subject. (Armstrong's work). Not a big deal but I would prefer to see the discussion all in one thread.
Dawn

[Bob Prudhomme]

Inbreeding, indeed.

It is sad to see what a man will resort to when he runs out of arguments. I see no reason to continue this discussion.

Prepare to be ignored by the rest of the forum, as well, Mr. Parker.

[Albert Doyle]

The obit was probably written by a member of the Find-A-Grave obituary site where grammar can vary.



Maybe whichever Oswald had their tonsils removed to prevent hospitalization, and therefore a medical record, behind enemy lines as part of his spy work.