Nick Rose Wrote:YOU GUYS SURE HAVE A ***FUCKING FUNNY WAY OF WELCOMING PEOPLE TO YOUR LITTLE FUCKING COMMUNITY***.
You are all more paranoid that fucking David Motherfucking Ferrie himself.
If we all stopped investigating claims and leads based on what has been "debunked" by various sources, the case would have been dead on day one.
Hell, Marina Oswald herself was pretty damning of her husband from the get go.
She sure turned her story around with time.
I'm well aware that the claims of Ricky White were dubious at best.
I'm also well aware that a proper intelligence operation would have a DISINFO campaign launched in tandem with any REAL LEAK or REAL LEAD ***SO AS TO BURY THE TRUTH*** ... in other words, Ricky White COULD be just a jack ass ... OR he could and his family could have been "made an offer" regarding coming forward with DISINFO to cover for a real leak.
I DON'T KNOW WHY ANYONE WOULD BLATANTLY DISREGARD SUCH A NAME DROP BY THE HEAD OF THE CHICAGO MOB,
WHEN HIS RELATIONS TO CASTRO ASSASSINATION, AND HIS OFFING AT THE TIME OF THE HSCA IS READILY APPARENT.
HIS CONNECTION WITH ROSELLI, AND THE CASTRO ATTEMPTS CAN BE FOUND ALL OVER THE FAMILY JEWELS
YOU CAN READ SAM GIANCANA'S ACCOUNT NAMING ROSCOE WHITE HERE, IN CHAPTER FIFTEEN: http://books.google.com/books?id=bU8tAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover (you can read it in the free preview even)
See where Roscoe White is named dropped in a chapter containing Johnny Roselli, Maheu, Fiorni, etc ...
If you scroll up to chapter 14, you can see where, in discussing the assassination of Castro, he admits that the government was trying to use a cancer-cocktail (among other chemicals) to attempt a Castro hit (jives nicely with ALSO WIDELY "DEBUNKED" JVBAKER CLAIMS --- OMG -- I'M A DISINFO AGENT, A DOUCHE BAG, A SHILL, A SHMUCK -- WELCOME TO THIS BOARD ASSHOLE!!!)
ROSCOE WHITE STILL REMAINS ON MY LIST OF POSSIBLY VALID LEADS DUE TO HIS JAW IN THE BYP, THE *FACT* THAT HE WENT TO JAPAN ON *THE EXACT SAME BOAT A OSWALD* (which means he may have trained\schooled with Oswald) AND WAS "PLANTED" IN THE DALLAS PD ONLY TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE SHOOTING.
I also argue that if you pull your head out of your ass, quit being such a paranoid and defensive piece of shit, and actually look at the thread my picture comparison is based on, you will see that the rear guard in that landsdale photograph IS very much in question (go read the thread and look at the other guys research, it isn't mine) and that offering Roscoe White as the identity of that officer actually would make some sense (IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR HEAD UP YOUR ASS).
I'm not saying IT IS.
I was asking for HONEST OPINIONS.
(Although I wasn't asking to be torn to shreds for trying to contribute)
IN SHORT:
YOU CAN ALL GO FUCK YOURSELVES.
Wait a minute. One person gives you shit and THIS is your response? The White matter is pretty complicated. I know certain TX researchers got very spooked over this.
Some say it's all been totally discredited, others disagree. I knew Fensterwald took it very seriously but then there are those who thought he was a spook. (The TX researchers were very serious non spooks). So this is not just that cut and dry.
You are very new here and to tell everyone here to "fuck" themselves is not acceptable behavior.
Dawn
Dawn Meredith Wrote:Wait a minute. One person gives you shit and THIS is your response? The White matter is pretty complicated. I know certain TX researchers got very spooked over this.
Some say it's all been totally discredited, others disagree. I knew Fensterwald took it very seriously but then there are those who thought he was a spook. (The TX researchers were very serious non spooks). So this is not just that cut and dry.
You are very new here and to tell everyone here to "fuck" themselves is not acceptable behavior.
Dawn
Yes. Dawn.
Yes it is.
I've already been (within my first day here) been called out via PM by one of your most "esteemed" contributors and the insinuation was VERY clearly that i am a disinfo agent or otherwise simply dishonest.
Not only that, in my readings here, IT IS VERY CLEARLY A PATTERN.
I've seen not one, but several other newcomers, just as plainly sincere as my inquiries\posts have been, ALL GIVEN THE SAME TREATMENT. All told they are idiots \ buffoons etc ...
AND YET YOUR OWN ESTEEMED MEMBERS CANT EVEN DO BASIC RESEARCH TO DISCERN THAT THE MCONE LETTER IS A HOAX, OR THAT *** SAM GIANCANA NAME DROPS ROSCOE WHITE IN CHAPTER FIFTEEN OF A BOOK PUBLISHED ALMOST TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO ***.
If your own members were truly on top of their shit,
then i could understand flying accusations against newcomers, BUT THEY AREN'T.
The half that ARE on top of their shit (Mr. Lemkin, i'm sorry to call you out) seem almost schizophrenic and self-contradictory within singular posts. "Oh Roscoe White. Thats a sore spot. You COULD be an agitator\agent. BUT ITS VERY SKETCHY HOW HE DIED. AND THIS AND THAT - YEAH LOTS OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. BUT ... but NO. I can't talk. and No ITS DEFINITELY BUNK."
I mean. WTF?
It's bunk and it's legit.
It's got some weight to it, but don't ask about it.
CAN YOU PEOPLE NOT SIMPLY RESPOND IN A CIVIL MANNER TO HONEST FUCKING QUESTIONS?
*** IF YOU CAN NOT ... CAN YOU AT LEAST MAKE SURE A MODERATOR IS AROUND TO DELETE PATENTLY OFFENSIVE POSTS ... PARTICULARLY ONES AIMED AT NEW MEMBERSHIP IN A COMMUNITY THAT SEEMS LIKE IT COULD USE A SWIFT KICK IN THE ASS ***
???
If you guys want to remain with your heads up your ass, fine.
But i contribute some (at least in some way) valuable information,
and its FLAME TIME.
I read the Giancana book back in the early 90s and forgot that White was mentioned in it. I find that book very suspect, and I think the author may have added White's name into the story because of the recent "revelations" by White's son.
I've had people here accuse me of being a disinformation agent, Nick, but you just have to learn to blow it off and ignore it. If people don't agree with you, so what? It happens all the time on JFK forums.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I read the Giancana book back in the early 90s and forgot that White was mentioned in it. I find that book very suspect, and I think the author may have added White's name into the story because of the recent "revelations" by White's son.
I've had people here accuse me of being a disinformation agent, Nick, but you just have to learn to blow it off and ignore it. If people don't agree with you, so what? It happens all the time on JFK forums.
Agreed Tracy.
I will just add if you received a PM accusing you of being an agent, name that person here. I am troubled that someone here would do that.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I read the Giancana book back in the early 90s and forgot that White was mentioned in it. I find that book very suspect, and I think the author may have added White's name into the story because of the recent "revelations" by White's son.
I've had people here accuse me of being a disinformation agent, Nick, but you just have to learn to blow it off and ignore it. If people don't agree with you, so what? It happens all the time on JFK forums.
Agreed Tracy.
I will just add if you received a PM accusing you of being an agent, name that person here. I am troubled that someone here would do that.
Dawn
so now it is my responsibility as a newcomer to rat-out board members of good standing in an effort to extricate myself !?!
This is absurd.
and i should not have to "learn to blow off" personal attacks.
*They should not be tolerated here*
PERIOD.
If board members can not respond to the content of the posts in a rational manner,
warn them sternly.
The overtly inflammatory nature of my reply to a personal attack was meant to highlight this and force the moderators to step up. Either both the original insult "this is bullshit", "only a shmuck" (which is a direct personal insult thinly veiled as a generalization) and "spreading an agenda" should all be considered unacceptable forum response behavior (along with my flagrant reply) or we should all just pack up and go home.
Why is this forum, which is supposed to stand up for truth, not only not open to discussing such, but seemingly in support of it's own members quashing it with abusive personal attacks TOTALLY DEVOID of any objective debate?
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I read the Giancana book back in the early 90s and forgot that White was mentioned in it. I find that book very suspect, and I think the author may have added White's name into the story because of the recent "revelations" by White's son.
I've had people here accuse me of being a disinformation agent, Nick, but you just have to learn to blow it off and ignore it. If people don't agree with you, so what? It happens all the time on JFK forums.
Agreed Tracy.
I will just add if you received a PM accusing you of being an agent, name that person here. I am troubled that someone here would do that.
Dawn
David Healey insinuated as much on a few occasions:
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I read the Giancana book back in the early 90s and forgot that White was mentioned in it. I find that book very suspect, and I think the author may have added White's name into the story because of the recent "revelations" by White's son.
I've had people here accuse me of being a disinformation agent, Nick, but you just have to learn to blow it off and ignore it. If people don't agree with you, so what? It happens all the time on JFK forums.
Agreed Tracy.
I will just add if you received a PM accusing you of being an agent, name that person here. I am troubled that someone here would do that.
Dawn
so now it is my responsibility as a newcomer to rat-out board members of good standing in an effort to extricate myself !?!
This is absurd.
and i should not have to "learn to blow off" personal attacks.
*They should not be tolerated here*
PERIOD.
If board members can not respond to the content of the posts in a rational manner,
warn them sternly.
The overtly inflammatory nature of my reply to a personal attack was meant to highlight this and force the moderators to step up. Either both the original insult "this is bullshit", "only a shmuck" (which is a direct personal insult thinly veiled as a generalization) and "spreading an agenda" should all be considered unacceptable forum response behavior (along with my flagrant reply) or we should all just pack up and go home.
Why is this forum, which is supposed to stand up for truth, not only not open to discussing such, but seemingly in support of it's own members quashing it with abusive personal attacks TOTALLY DEVOID of any objective debate?
Hi there Nick... (and thanks for the link to my "2 Sets of Tramps" thread which indeed questions the identity of the tramp's escorts)
I think what you may be missing here is the context... DPF has been visciously attacked/hacked in the last year. Is it worth losing a new member who is NOT an agent in the process of putting them thru the paces?
To the owners and movers of this forum, it is... and at this point in life, if you have not grown a thick skin from dealing with the LNers and their tactics.. lucky you. either you are lucky enough NOT to have been to focus of their attacks as I have many, many times... or have simply not come into contact with the COINTELPRO LNers out there. There are a couple well respected forums where this is a daily occurance... Which is why - if one understand from whence these people are coming, that surviving the gaunlet HERE concludes in accepting the way it is and must be in order to have fruitful and productive discussions about real research and analysis.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE TOPIC BEING RIGHT OR WRONG at all Nick... but about real, healthy paranoia resulting from real acts of sabotage and disruption.
The attacking certainly turns people off... yet the "DEEP POLITICS FORUM" is not the jfk-this or that forum, there is an expectation that you bring your thoughts and theories here for scrutiny,
The assumption is you have given the subject thought and consideration... the DPF is kinda like graduate school in the assassination and surrounding topics. Most all of us got our undergraduate degrees in the 1,5,10,25 or 50 years each of us has been at it.
Peter is indeed an interesting character as most of here know... but an amazing resource and basically sick to death of "players" asking "innocent" questions...
You are also coming to the party 2 years after the fact on this thread Nick...
you posted:
Quote:
I'm really surprised that not only could I only find one thread on RW, but that in that thread (this one) not one person mentions that Sam Giancana fingers Roscoe White as a shooter in his memoirs. This is second hand information, but I read those memoirs were first written or dictated in the 1970's (although not published for over a decade) ...[/QUOTE]
Mr Ortiz does not come back to the thread in FEB 2012 to continue anything, in fact if you look at his posting history - a LOT from 2/19-2/24, a couple in March of 2012 and then nothing until June 2013....
it sure APPEARS as if a hit-and-run was done to intro the RW story into the DPF pages with nothing new to offer.
I feel it is up to YOU to post the Giancana info and PROVE the White-BYP connection... and to please try and see that what was done by Charles back then was necessary, as necessary as it remains today.
Sometimes Nick, we are put into situations only to see how we react, the actual topic takes 2nd chair... if, as a true believer in the coup-d'etat of 11/22/63, you have not developed a little bit of tough hide and hatred for the tactics and ignorance of the USG position... then as CD might have said, "WTF are you doing here?"
Your thoughts about Roscoe and the BYP are very interesting and have been put forth in years past.
Here is Roscoe's body (from the beach photo) in the BYP - a pretty good fit and those stubby fingers.... but there are others involved in the BYP creation you have not mentioned... and can be discussed in the BYP threads... (which I have also done here) along with your PROOF supporting why you think Roscoe was involved with this or that...
you posted another of my threads from the EdForum which I am reposting some of the images...
(EDIT: The MINOX camera photos were rectangluar, not square... I do not knwo which camera was used for the photos in Item #4)
[QUOTE]also... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/in...howtopic=20789
those rectangular photos that someone in the thread says only come from a minox ...
i know there is alleged proof that RW and LHO were at several bases/training simultaneously, but are we saying/alleging that LHO took those photos of RW with HIS minox? Is there any basis for this claim???
My addition to the topic is not to debunk the debunking, the information does not seem to be there to do so... I found this reference to this photo of Roscoe and ask:
I had not seen in any of these other thread/sites the photo in WCD443 attributed to Oswald that I posted at the bottom of the post -
if that photo WAS taken by Oswald, how does that change the RW story and its proof or lack there of?
yet speaking of those STUBBY FINGERS... in WCD 443we are offered a collection of photos which Marina is asked to ID....
They are seperated into "ITEMS" and this is ITEM #4 with Marina's description...
If Photo #3 was taken by Oswald and in HIS possession... would that not suppose there was a closer relationship between OSWALD and WHITE than previously suggested?
And that HARVEY used a photo of Roscoe when he created the BYP, if HE created them?
If not, what is OSWALD doing with a photo of his "Marine Corps friends in Japan" including one Roscoe White?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5639[/ATTACH]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
In my opinion the Roscoe White stuff is tending towards bogus because of the mixed up stories involving the discovery of the diary or orders or whatever it was. So it isn't worth drawing site action towards yourself over. In the bigger Deep Political picture it would be interesting if he was a shooter but it doesn't matter according to what we already know.
The R. White story is always a good [soft-spot] place to mount an attack the research community, generally.
Yes Peter,and this Nick Rose dude played into that perfectly.And,I'll go so far as to agree with Seamus... fucking bollocks.
Even though people here offered up what they could about RW.Nick saw fit to trash the whole damn forum with the same old crap...We are all just a bunch of paranoids.Never mind that this thread spells out the problems that researchers into the RW story were threatened and maybe even killed for it.And,also there is information that can't be brought forth at this time for safety reasons.People on this forum are all just paranoids.SORRY DUDE,YOU SUCK!!!
And,as for the mods doing something,they should have shown you the door.That's what I think.....
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.â€
Buckminster Fuller
David Josephs Wrote:yet speaking of those STUBBY FINGERS... in WCD 443we are offered a collection of photos which Marina is asked to ID....
They are seperated into "ITEMS" and this is ITEM #4 with Marina's description...
If Photo #3 was taken by Oswald and in HIS possession... would that not suppose there was a closer relationship between OSWALD and WHITE than previously suggested?
And that HARVEY used a photo of Roscoe when he created the BYP, if HE created them?
If not, what is OSWALD doing with a photo of his "Marine Corps friends in Japan" including one Roscoe White?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5639[/ATTACH]
Okay. So I am just going to ignore all the paranoid ass holes on this board (since there seem to be an unfortunate majority), and focus on the few people who actually seem to have something intelligent to contribute. THANK YOU DAVID FOR BRINGING SOMETHING TO DISCUSS other than the notion that i may or may not "suck", be a "shmuck" or be paranoid that you guys are paranoid (?huh?) ...
***I TOO FIND IT HIGHLY INTRIGUING THAT A PHOTOGRAPH OF ROSCOE WHITE WAS ENTERED IN TO WARREN COMMISSION EVIDENCE IN A GROUP OF PHOTOGRAPHS ALL CLEARLY TAKEN BY OSWALD***
Here is the link you provided in your Education forum post to Marry Ferrell's site, showing that inventory of photographs, so no mistake can be made, these photos were entered in to Warren Commission evidence, and positively ID'd by Marina as "friends of Oswald in Japan". http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...elPageId=4
And this guy just magically resurfaces in the DPD two months before 11\22\63 ???
hmm.
My other few comments for the moment:
a. Roscoe's Gut -- while I was a little hesitant in comparing the WCD443 Roscoe White photograph with the BYP, given that White clearly seems to have somewhat of a gut in the beach photo ... I have actually become less concerned with this fact after studying the BYP photo with this "discrepancy" in mind and noticing that if you look just below the paper in his hand, it seems rather much like the person DOES in deed have a gut, and that quite simply (as any woman worth a salt knows) the all black attire conceals this weight rather well.
b. Roscoe's Chin -- DAVID, while I appreciate your inclusion of a comparison of Roscoe White's chin to that of the BYP, it does the comparison a marginal disservice in that the photo you include is of an older White whose chin has rounded out a bit over time.
If we use the image on the right below, it becomes a little more convincing:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5645[/ATTACH]
(taken from: http://jfkplayersandwitnesses.wordpress....coe-white/)
c. Roscoe's Arm Bump -- apparently he had a forearm wound that healed improperly ...
if it can be shown that this claim is true, and that what we are seeing in the below photo is evidence of that, and not simply a process at the end of the ulna bone, it becomes pretty damn hard to refute ...
d. Paranoia, This Board, Self-Contradicting Trolls -- I would like to make note of the fact that while I have received an rather large dose of hate for simply trying to bring up items for discussion, those responsible for hurling insults and allegations against me have made one hell of a convoluted mess of claims. If I have this right, the reason I should not be discussing Roscoe White on this forum is:
1. It was already discussed, and I should have been here 3 years ago
2. It was debunked pretty thoroughly (actually only various claims of his son have been debunked)
3. People have been murdered and threatened for looking in to this already.
4. It is irrelevant to the case, on the whole.
I'm truly sorry if I'm the first person to have to point this out, but claims 2 and 3 are WILDLY in contradiction with each other.
So I should stop discussing this aspect of the case because people have already been murdered and silenced for investigating a hoax?
Huh?
Also, point 4 is just plain obnoxious.
Almost every aspect of the kennedy assassination that can be discussed is a triviality in some regard. I am not going to walk in to a zapruder frame \ hoax or bullet trajectory or brain fragment thread and start screaming "you are an asshole and an agent provocateur leading us down dead ends for discussing this!" in your thread of choice. Why come over here and do it to me?
I happen to find it interesting and down right puzzling that this man, Roscoe White, is on a roll of Lee Harvey Oswald's marine era film, ends up working in the DPD just two months before the assassination, has a jaw that looks much like the BYP, possibly a wrist wound to match as well, and low-and-behold his son comes out and says his diary (which allegedly went missing, mind you) claims he admitted it.
I'm sorry if that makes me a spook, a kook, or a douche.
