Armstrong: Of Covert Ops, Fake Marines, of Classifieds, of Cabbages and Kings

[Jim DiEugenio]

Armstrong's book is very engrossing.

I read the whole thing from cover to cover in a period of three weeks at a favorite restaurant of mine in Long Beach. I was there at about noon and stayed until about four each day. I strongly suggest that if you have not read it, to get it from Last Hurrah. ANd then read it straight through like I did.

The remarkable thing about the book is how little John relied upon the books published previously. So much of his work is original.

The other interesting aspect of the book is that you don't have to buy into his central thesis to appreciate what he has done. In fact, for me, the two best parts of the book were: 1.) His discussion of the MC rifle and how Oswald could not have bought it or had it at the time of the murder, and 2.) His work on Mexico City, which when read in conjunction with the Lopez Report, and John Newman's work, seems to me to be about as good as it gets on this subject.

[Bill Kelly]

In preparing his five talks for the upcoming Hawaii JFK Conference, John Armstrong
has been calling me frequently and discussing various points to be covered.

He has reminded me of a few of the discoveries he had made:

1. Something I did not REALLY understand till a discussion yesterday (even
though I had read Harvey & Lee) was that FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD, since
there was only ONE Lee Harvey Oswald, the Marines had only ONE record of
the two men using that name. The Marines had a "Lee Harvey Oswald" file,
and into it went all the records of BOTH men. It is here that the most egregious
discrepancies exist of two different men at the same time. And each LHO was
not necessarily ON ACTIVE DUTY ALL THE TIME.

An example: Both Lee and Harvey attended Marine Aviation School at
Keesler AFB, but at differing times. AFTER that training, one went to Japan,
but the other went to New Orleans and "became a CIVILIAN", getting a job
at Pfisterer Dental Lab. That LHO then LATER went to Japan as a Marine.
It is no wonder then that after the assassination, the FBI went to Pfisterer
and confiscated all the records regarding the LHO employment there. Other
records show LHO in high school and simultaneously in Japan. Still other
records show LHO in the Philippines and Japan at the same time.

2. Ask yourself, why was the MONEY ORDER used to "purchase the Mannlicher-
Carcano from Klein's" NEVER CASHED? It has been there in the WR volumes
all these years for all to see. But John was the first researcher to notice that
the backside bore NO ENDORSEMENT OR BANK STAMPS. If Klein's had
sold the rifle, it would have had stampings on the back for each transaction.

3. The "Papers of Edward Epstein" were placed at Georgetown University,
but the INTERVIEWS Epstein was allowed to conduct with Marines who had
served "with LHO" at various times and places are CLASSIFIED. John learned
this from his research associate Malcolm Blount of England. Malcolm arranged
to fly from England to Washington to study the Epstein Collection. When he
got to Georgetown, he was allowed to access the Epstein papers EXCEPT
for the INTERVIEWS with Marine acquaintances of LHO at various times
and places. Here is part of what Malcolm told John:

"John, I got on a plane and flew there just to read those interviews....I was not pleased when Scott Taylor the head of special collections at Georgetown University said that he made a mistake, and that box of the Oursler Collection relating to Epstein's book was closed to research. As I said, he called Oursler and pleaded my case but to no avail."


Jack

Who is Oursler and why does he have control over the file?

BK

[Jim DiEugenio]

I think its Fulton Oursler and the connection is to Reader's Digest who Epstein did Legend for.

[John Kowalski]

In preparing his five talks for the upcoming Hawaii JFK Conference, John Armstrong
has been calling me frequently and discussing various points to be covered.

He has reminded me of a few of the discoveries he had made:

1. Something I did not REALLY understand till a discussion yesterday (even
though I had read Harvey & Lee) was that FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD, since
there was only ONE Lee Harvey Oswald, the Marines had only ONE record of
the two men using that name. The Marines had a "Lee Harvey Oswald" file,
and into it went all the records of BOTH men. It is here that the most egregious
discrepancies exist of two different men at the same time. And each LHO was
not necessarily ON ACTIVE DUTY ALL THE TIME.

An example: Both Lee and Harvey attended Marine Aviation School at
Keesler AFB, but at differing times. AFTER that training, one went to Japan,
but the other went to New Orleans and "became a CIVILIAN", getting a job
at Pfisterer Dental Lab. That LHO then LATER went to Japan as a Marine.
It is no wonder then that after the assassination, the FBI went to Pfisterer
and confiscated all the records regarding the LHO employment there. Other
records show LHO in high school and simultaneously in Japan. Still other
records show LHO in the Philippines and Japan at the same time.

2. Ask yourself, why was the MONEY ORDER used to "purchase the Mannlicher-
Carcano from Klein's" NEVER CASHED? It has been there in the WR volumes
all these years for all to see. But John was the first researcher to notice that
the backside bore NO ENDORSEMENT OR BANK STAMPS. If Klein's had
sold the rifle, it would have had stampings on the back for each transaction.

3. The "Papers of Edward Epstein" were placed at Georgetown University,
but the INTERVIEWS Epstein was allowed to conduct with Marines who had
served "with LHO" at various times and places are CLASSIFIED. John learned
this from his research associate Malcolm Blount of England. Malcolm arranged
to fly from England to Washington to study the Epstein Collection. When he
got to Georgetown, he was allowed to access the Epstein papers EXCEPT
for the INTERVIEWS with Marine acquaintances of LHO at various times
and places. Here is part of what Malcolm told John:

"John, I got on a plane and flew there just to read those interviews....I was not pleased when Scott Taylor the head of special collections at Georgetown University said that he made a mistake, and that box of the Oursler Collection relating to Epstein's book was closed to research. As I said, he called Oursler and pleaded my case but to no avail."

"The time has come," the Walrus said,

"To talk of many things:

Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--

Of cabbages--and kings--

And why the sea is boiling hot--

And whether pigs have wings.":flypig:

Jack

Jack:

How did he get access to Oswald's Marine file?

John

[Jack White]

In preparing his five talks for the upcoming Hawaii JFK Conference, John Armstrong
has been calling me frequently and discussing various points to be covered.

He has reminded me of a few of the discoveries he had made:

1. Something I did not REALLY understand till a discussion yesterday (even
though I had read Harvey & Lee) was that FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD, since
there was only ONE Lee Harvey Oswald, the Marines had only ONE record of
the two men using that name. The Marines had a "Lee Harvey Oswald" file,
and into it went all the records of BOTH men. It is here that the most egregious
discrepancies exist of two different men at the same time. And each LHO was
not necessarily ON ACTIVE DUTY ALL THE TIME.

An example: Both Lee and Harvey attended Marine Aviation School at
Keesler AFB, but at differing times. AFTER that training, one went to Japan,
but the other went to New Orleans and "became a CIVILIAN", getting a job
at Pfisterer Dental Lab. That LHO then LATER went to Japan as a Marine.
It is no wonder then that after the assassination, the FBI went to Pfisterer
and confiscated all the records regarding the LHO employment there. Other
records show LHO in high school and simultaneously in Japan. Still other
records show LHO in the Philippines and Japan at the same time.

2. Ask yourself, why was the MONEY ORDER used to "purchase the Mannlicher-
Carcano from Klein's" NEVER CASHED? It has been there in the WR volumes
all these years for all to see. But John was the first researcher to notice that
the backside bore NO ENDORSEMENT OR BANK STAMPS. If Klein's had
sold the rifle, it would have had stampings on the back for each transaction.

3. The "Papers of Edward Epstein" were placed at Georgetown University,
but the INTERVIEWS Epstein was allowed to conduct with Marines who had
served "with LHO" at various times and places are CLASSIFIED. John learned
this from his research associate Malcolm Blount of England. Malcolm arranged
to fly from England to Washington to study the Epstein Collection. When he
got to Georgetown, he was allowed to access the Epstein papers EXCEPT
for the INTERVIEWS with Marine acquaintances of LHO at various times
and places. Here is part of what Malcolm told John:

"John, I got on a plane and flew there just to read those interviews....I was not pleased when Scott Taylor the head of special collections at Georgetown University said that he made a mistake, and that box of the Oursler Collection relating to Epstein's book was closed to research. As I said, he called Oursler and pleaded my case but to no avail."

"The time has come," the Walrus said,

"To talk of many things:

Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--

Of cabbages--and kings--

And why the sea is boiling hot--

And whether pigs have wings.":flypig:

Jack

Jack:

How did he get access to Oswald's Marine file?

John

I did not say John "got access to Oswald's Marine file." Many of
the documents are printed in the WC Volumes.

Perhaps my writing was not clear enough. All LHO documents
were found by John in public records OR the National Archives.

He never laid eyes or hands on "paper file folder" with thousands of
documents. John was pointing out that ALL are under the SINGLE NAME
of LEE HARVEY OSWALD. What John collected was all documents
mentioning LHO. He asked the Archives for any document which
contained the name OSWALD. What John emphasized to me was
that ALL DOCUMENTS WERE UNDER THE SINGLE (FILE) NAME LEE
HARVEY OSWALD. There were NOT separate folders for Lee and
Harvey. I hope this makes it more clear.

John then took all the documents "from the LHO files" and compared
them, separating them into files for Lee and files for Harvey. He
then made timelines of the documents which shed light on contrary
documentation. And these are not simply Marine documents, but
documents generated by any other agencies.

If this is not clear, read the book.

Jack

[Magda Hassan]

Jack this is from John Kelin:

I don't have Armstrong's book. Can you provide a WC citation for this check? I'd like to look it up.

So I thought I should ask you. It is reference to the Klein's' money order for the Manlicher Carcano.
Cheers,
Maggie.

[Magda Hassan]

Jack, more from John

Well...I'll be interested in whatever the followup is on this -- i.e. the Armstrong reference. For what it's worth, I just checked the Sylvia Meagher index (under "rifle"), which pointed me to WC Vol. 17, p. 677, CE 788. This is a money ord...er made out by "A. Hidell" to Klein's Sporting Goods, for $21.45. The reverse side looks like an endorsement to me: stamped by the First National Bank of Chicago and Klein's. The date 11-22-63 is handwritten beneath these stamps three times, followed by a handwritten 11-24-63. There are initials to the left of each date, presumably by FBI guys or some other investigators.

The next page in Vol. 17 shows CE 789, what appears to be the front of the same money order. The reverse side isn't shown.

I don't doubt John Armstrong; I"m probably looking at the wrong thing. As I say, I'll be interested in whatever his citation(s) is (are).

Meagher's index also directs one to CE 1136. But this exhibit does not, at my quick glance, appear to be in the volumes. Vol. 18 ends with CE 1053. Vols. 19, 20, and 21 are catalogued not by CE numbers but names. Vol. 22 resumes with CE 1513. My knowledge of the 26 vols is far from exhaustive and CE 1136 may be there somewhere -- I'm pretty sure Meagher indexed only the stuff in the Report and 26 volumes, not anything that was withheld. I could be wrong. It's past my bedtime. I'm tired. I'll follow up on this.

[John Kowalski]

In preparing his five talks for the upcoming Hawaii JFK Conference, John Armstrong
has been calling me frequently and discussing various points to be covered.

He has reminded me of a few of the discoveries he had made:

1. Something I did not REALLY understand till a discussion yesterday (even
though I had read Harvey & Lee) was that FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD, since
there was only ONE Lee Harvey Oswald, the Marines had only ONE record of
the two men using that name. The Marines had a "Lee Harvey Oswald" file,
and into it went all the records of BOTH men. It is here that the most egregious
discrepancies exist of two different men at the same time. And each LHO was
not necessarily ON ACTIVE DUTY ALL THE TIME.

An example: Both Lee and Harvey attended Marine Aviation School at
Keesler AFB, but at differing times. AFTER that training, one went to Japan,
but the other went to New Orleans and "became a CIVILIAN", getting a job
at Pfisterer Dental Lab. That LHO then LATER went to Japan as a Marine.
It is no wonder then that after the assassination, the FBI went to Pfisterer
and confiscated all the records regarding the LHO employment there. Other
records show LHO in high school and simultaneously in Japan. Still other
records show LHO in the Philippines and Japan at the same time.

2. Ask yourself, why was the MONEY ORDER used to "purchase the Mannlicher-
Carcano from Klein's" NEVER CASHED? It has been there in the WR volumes
all these years for all to see. But John was the first researcher to notice that
the backside bore NO ENDORSEMENT OR BANK STAMPS. If Klein's had
sold the rifle, it would have had stampings on the back for each transaction.

3. The "Papers of Edward Epstein" were placed at Georgetown University,
but the INTERVIEWS Epstein was allowed to conduct with Marines who had
served "with LHO" at various times and places are CLASSIFIED. John learned
this from his research associate Malcolm Blount of England. Malcolm arranged
to fly from England to Washington to study the Epstein Collection. When he
got to Georgetown, he was allowed to access the Epstein papers EXCEPT
for the INTERVIEWS with Marine acquaintances of LHO at various times
and places. Here is part of what Malcolm told John:

"John, I got on a plane and flew there just to read those interviews....I was not pleased when Scott Taylor the head of special collections at Georgetown University said that he made a mistake, and that box of the Oursler Collection relating to Epstein's book was closed to research. As I said, he called Oursler and pleaded my case but to no avail."

"The time has come," the Walrus said,

"To talk of many things:

Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--

Of cabbages--and kings--

And why the sea is boiling hot--

And whether pigs have wings.":flypig:

Jack

Jack:

How did he get access to Oswald's Marine file?

John

I did not say John "got access to Oswald's Marine file." Many of
the documents are printed in the WC Volumes.

Perhaps my writing was not clear enough. All LHO documents
were found by John in public records OR the National Archives.

He never laid eyes or hands on "paper file folder" with thousands of
documents. John was pointing out that ALL are under the SINGLE NAME
of LEE HARVEY OSWALD. What John collected was all documents
mentioning LHO. He asked the Archives for any document which
contained the name OSWALD. What John emphasized to me was
that ALL DOCUMENTS WERE UNDER THE SINGLE (FILE) NAME LEE
HARVEY OSWALD. There were NOT separate folders for Lee and
Harvey. I hope this makes it more clear.

John then took all the documents "from the LHO files" and compared
them, separating them into files for Lee and files for Harvey. He
then made timelines of the documents which shed light on contrary
documentation. And these are not simply Marine documents, but
documents generated by any other agencies.

If this is not clear, read the book.

Jack

Jack:

It is now clear to me how he got the information and it is all the more interesting to discover how he found that information. I read his book over a year ago, it's a fantastic book. I will be looking forward to his talks that he will give at the conference, assuming that they will be recorded and uploaded to the web.

John

[Jim DiEugenio]

The inscsription John Kelin is talking about is what Klein's did for every check to prepare for deposit. THe Bank of CHicago was their bank.

What John is talking about is the follow through deposits and endorsements that should be there, all the way to the Federeal Reserve in VIrginia. Those are not there. JOhn looked up other checks, and they were there. This proves that the CHicago bank passed the check on. IN the case of the rifle money order, this did not seem to occur.

[Magda Hassan]

Thanks Jim