Lifton attacks Fetzer over 9/11 and Israeli Complicity

[Dawn Meredith]

Dawn,

I see that I did not actually answer your question, for which I apologize. At the very least, whatever hit the North Tower did not look remotely like a 767. Video fakery appears to have been used for the South Tower hit. A 757 flew toward the Pentagon, but swerved over it and did not hit it. And the 757 in Shanksville did not crash there but may have been shot down or landed in Cleveland! I know that sounds very odd, but, as I explain in my Powerpoint presentations, that is what the evidence supports--although there is also a lot of evidence (including no proof the hijackers were even on board the planes, that the phone calls turn out to have been faked, that no investigation of any of the crashes were ever conducted, that none of the 1.5 million of uniquely identifiable parts of the planes have been produced by the government, and that FAA Registration data, which I have in hand, show that the planes corresponding to Flights 11 and 77 were not de-registered until 2002 and corresponding to Flights 93 and 175 not until 2005) that suggests the situation may be even more drastic than that. I gave you links that substantiate many of these points, but I did not appreciate that you were engaged in a trial and did not have time for any of this. I am terribly sorry about that and wish I had been more directly responsive to your query. I hope that you were not distracted.

Jim

Jim:
Before I became overly busy with work I was following the l-o-n- g thread at the other forum and saw Lifton's many attacks on you and Judyth. (I have long ceased to be registered there so could not respond) .

I have just two questions re the above: What about Jim DiEugenio's article did Lifton attack? (In brief)

And on 9-11. Clearly a false flag, inside job and I suspect Zionists had a hand, but recently someone told me that one of the things you believe about 9-11 is that there wer no planes at all. Not that the planes were remotely controlled but that there were none. Is this your belief? Please do not direct me to numerous web sites as I am in the mids of preparing for three trials, two this month so have not time to research this, just ask the question.

Thanks,
Dawn
ps Good luck in getting back your grand.

Thank you Jim. Apology accepted. I should not even be posting when this busy. But I am a junkie on this stuff. And actually I totally agree about PA. I am not sure what did happen to that plane but shot down is probably accurate, even though the crash site is nothing like a crash site I have ever seen before. As I said earlier I am open to fakery, I was not there. I have a question (via fb) to my son-in law's brother and also to the son of Carl Oglesby, who lives in NY. If I get a response I will let you know. MIke is not at all political so may be offended by the question, and I also may have misunderstood my daughter. No clue how close Caleb Oglesby may have been to the towers.

But if it was fakery where are all those people? Does anyone have an explantion for THAT? And please don't tell me Barbara Olsen is alive in Germany Ted certainly changed his story several times, all lies.

That was a cheap shot about Jones. I had seen you both on tv many years back I think on c-span doing a conference and was very impressed and so was very saddened when you two split. It reminded me of the zillions of splits in the JFK community.

When I have more time I will study each link you provided.
Thanks,
Dawn

[Jack White]

Dawn,

I see that I did not actually answer your question, for which I apologize. At the very least, whatever hit the North Tower did not look remotely like a 767. Video fakery appears to have been used for the South Tower hit. A 757 flew toward the Pentagon, but swerved over it and did not hit it. And the 757 in Shanksville did not crash there but may have been shot down or landed in Cleveland! I know that sounds very odd, but, as I explain in my Powerpoint presentations, that is what the evidence supports--although there is also a lot of evidence (including no proof the hijackers were even on board the planes, that the phone calls turn out to have been faked, that no investigation of any of the crashes were ever conducted, that none of the 1.5 million of uniquely identifiable parts of the planes have been produced by the government, and that FAA Registration data, which I have in hand, show that the planes corresponding to Flights 11 and 77 were not de-registered until 2002 and corresponding to Flights 93 and 175 not until 2005) that suggests the situation may be even more drastic than that. I gave you links that substantiate many of these points, but I did not appreciate that you were engaged in a trial and did not have time for any of this. I am terribly sorry about that and wish I had been more directly responsive to your query. I hope that you were not distracted.

Jim

Jim:
Before I became overly busy with work I was following the l-o-n- g thread at the other forum and saw Lifton's many attacks on you and Judyth. (I have long ceased to be registered there so could not respond) .

I have just two questions re the above: What about Jim DiEugenio's article did Lifton attack? (In brief)

And on 9-11. Clearly a false flag, inside job and I suspect Zionists had a hand, but recently someone told me that one of the things you believe about 9-11 is that there wer no planes at all. Not that the planes were remotely controlled but that there were none. Is this your belief? Please do not direct me to numerous web sites as I am in the mids of preparing for three trials, two this month so have not time to research this, just ask the question.

Thanks,
Dawn
ps Good luck in getting back your grand.

Thank you Jim. Apology accepted. I should not even be posting when this busy. But I am a junkie on this stuff. And actually I totally agree about PA. I am not sure what did happen to that plane but shot down is probably accurate, even though the crash site is nothing like a crash site I have ever seen before. As I said earlier I am open to fakery, I was not there. I have a question (via fb) to my son-in law's brother and also to the son of Carl Oglesby, who lives in NY. If I get a response I will let you know. MIke is not at all political so may be offended by the question, and I also may have misunderstood my daughter. No clue how close Caleb Oglesby may have been to the towers.

But if it was fakery where are all those people? Does anyone have an explantion for THAT? And please don't tell me Barbara Olsen is alive in Germany Ted certainly changed his story several times, all lies.

That was a cheap shot about Jones. I had seen you both on tv many years back I think on c-span doing a conference and was very impressed and so was very saddened when you two split. It reminded me of the zillions of splits in the JFK community.

When I have more time I will study each link you provided.
Thanks,
Dawn

Hurrah! Reason prevails on all fronts! Progress.

Jack

[James H. Fetzer]

A member of Scholars some time back did a study of the nineteen passengers who allegedly made calls from the planes (which David Ray Griffin has now shown were all faked) in relation to the Social Security Death Index and the 9/11 Survivors Fund. Only one of their names appeared on the index and none of their survivors had secured money from the fund.

Ted Olson, our former Solicitor General, has observed that he could think of infinitely many reasons for the government to lie to the people. Even the FBI has confirmed that none of the alleged calls from Barbara. There was a flurry of reports at one point of her having been arrested in Europe, but I was not intrigued by her story at that point in time and did not follow them.

I have done programs on the alleged "witnesss" in New York and at the Pentagon, which turn out to be virtually worthless. The first was with Andrew Johnson of the UK, who studied the 500 witness reports that The New York Times has collated. The second was a three-part series, with Mike Sparks, who evaluates equipment that companies are proposing be purchased by the military.

He is quite a brilliant guy and you can find those interviews archived on my radio program at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com. He is inclined to believe that the woman Olson has now married--one "Lady Booth"--may actually be Barbara after undergoing plastic surgery, a conjecture we are attempting to check out.

I sent a couple of links about the passengers, but if the flights were faked, then of course the passengers were faked, too. The attitudes of survivors of the plane passengers is completely different than of the WTC victims. Uniike the WTC victims, they seem to have almost no interest in the case and don't want to be bothered--with the exception of a small band which is pursuing justice in the court in New York.

There the situation is quite bizarre. Judge Hellerstein, who has played a key roll in all the post-9/11 legal proceedings, reversed judicial procedure to have damages considered before liability, which is absurd. Awards are a function of (percentage of) liability times damages, but it appears as if he does not want the airlines to have to testify.

There has been no NTSB investigation of any of these crashes. The initial manifests released by CNN on 9/11 not only show no names of any of the alleged terrorists but no Arabic names. They have subsequently been subject to manipulation, as the last two links I originally provided show. So we don't really know but the situation is extremely odd.

[James H. Fetzer]

"What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon"
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-pentagon.html

[Dawn Meredith]

I did hear back from my son-in-law's brother, as promised am passing on his comments:

Hi Dawn. I did not see the planes hit, but I stood in a crowded street looking up at a burning hole in the north side of the tower and watching people jump. I asked the people around me what happened. Dozens of them saw it. I lived across the street from an elementary school that is 4 blocks from the site. Several of the children were cryig that a plane hit. They saw it. The guy who worked for me saw it. I didn't see it because I was in my apt, and the windows faced north. I lived it and will never forget it. Anyone who says it didn't happen is exploiting the deaths of thousands of people and trauma of tens of thousands more. To what ends I do not know. I hope that helps. Mike

So, he saw people jumping and knows people who saw plane hit, including the guy who worked for him.
Have not heard back from Caleb Oglesby.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

A member of Scholars some time back did a study of the nineteen passengers who allegedly made calls from the planes (which David Ray Griffin has now shown were all faked) in relation to the Social Security Death Index and the 9/11 Survivors Fund. Only one of their names appeared on the index and none of their survivors had secured money from the fund.

Ted Olson, our former Solicitor General, has observed that he could think of infinitely many reasons for the government to lie to the people. Even the FBI has confirmed that none of the alleged calls from Barbara. There was a flurry of reports at one point of her having been arrested in Europe, but I was not intrigued by her story at that point in time and did not follow them.

I have done programs on the alleged "witnesss" in New York and at the Pentagon, which turn out to be virtually worthless. The first was with Andrew Johnson of the UK, who studied the 500 witness reports that The New York Times has collated. The second was a three-part series, with Mike Sparks, who evaluates equipment that companies are proposing be purchased by the military.

He is quite a brilliant guy and you can find those interviews archived on my radio program at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com. He is inclined to believe that the woman Olson has now married--one "Lady Booth"--may actually be Barbara after undergoing plastic surgery, a conjecture we are attempting to check out.

I sent a couple of links about the passengers, but if the flights were faked, then of course the passengers were faked, too. The attitudes of survivors of the plane passengers is completely different than of the WTC victims. Uniike the WTC victims, they seem to have almost no interest in the case and don't want to be bothered--with the exception of a small band which is pursuing justice in the court in New York.

There the situation is quite bizarre. Judge Hellerstein, who has played a key roll in all the post-9/11 legal proceedings, reversed judicial procedure to have damages considered before liability, which is absurd. Awards are a function of (percentage of) liability times damages, but it appears as if he does not want the airlines to have to testify.

There has been no NTSB investigation of any of these crashes. The initial manifests released by CNN on 9/11 not only show no names of any of the alleged terrorists but no Arabic names. They have subsequently been subject to manipulation, as the last two links I originally provided show. So we don't really know but the situation is extremely odd.

Several years ago while abord a flight to PA there was a newspaper article that listed and gave brief descriptions of all the dead. Both in the planes and in the buildings. As well as commentary from relatives. At dinner last night my attorney husband told me that the victims were compensated. (Except of course the ones who are fighting for justice and would not be paid off to keep quiet)
I agree the situation is beyond "odd". Like "finding" Atta's passport laying on the ground. That was my first clue that this was not what it appeared to be. So of the 19 "callers" they don't show up as even dead on Social Security lists? (Except one). That is most troubling. But is Tod (sp) Beamer's wife just a liar? Certainly the "call" from the son to the mother giving his full name was not at all credible. "You believe me don't you Mom?" And the Judge's behavior is also most odd. Perhaps he and the airlines stitulated to of liability, leaving only the question of damages. Something I have never seen, but the only civil law I do is child protective services.
Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

"What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon"
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-pentagon.html

Excellent blog. Jack Whit's pics are amazing. Don't havetime at the moment to listen to the long videos, but will when I have more time.


Dawn

[Peter Presland]

..... I lived it and will never forget it. Anyone who says it didn't happen is exploiting the deaths of thousands of people and trauma of tens of thousands more.

What I find most interesting about eye-witness accounts is the emotion invested in them. I'm not criticising it either, just noting it. It's exactly the same over our 7/7 tube bombings; raise any question about the fundamentals of the official narrative and you are branded with one of the usual epithets; the anger and contempt is palpable and dismissive - almost as though you are considered to be as evil as the perpetrators whose identities and motives are somehow known beyond a shadow of doubt. Certainty can be sooo comforting eh? - very like religious faith in fact - But the child-like irrationality of it really is quite scary.

It seems to me that the most fundamental need of those with such an emotional involvement is to have a plausible narrative and someone to blame. Given both, they move on and woe-betide anyone who henceforth dares to question either.

Nobody questions that 'it happened'. What IS being questioned is exactly what constitutes "IT"?

I personally have NO such certainty about 9/11 beyond the whole thing being the most outrageous false-flag operation of all time. It is the technicalities of exactly how it was accomplished that really interest me. I am therefore prepared to countenance ANY theory that appears to fit such evidence as is available - INCLUDING that of emotional eye-witnesses.

[Malcolm Pryce]

Peter

I too have noted the hostility of those who defend the official narrative.

I think it’s because they feel threatened. Not physically, of course, but deep down in foundations of their souls. Our political leaders are surrogate parents who feed us the notion since birth that they are the guys in white hats. You challenge that axiom at your peril.

People will believe almost anything rather than look into that particular abyss.

How else could you dig a hole in a field in Shanksville and convince people it was an air crash?

Scary.

[James H. Fetzer]

I suggested he had not actually seen the plane hit. And what did he write to Dawn: "Hi Dawn. I did not see the planes hit, but . . . ". He says he asked people around him, principally children, "saw what happened", but how in the world could he know what they saw?

We are predisposed to make sense of what we are seeing, where what we think we are seeing creates closure for visual, auditor, and other stimuli we otherwise do not understand. When we are dealing with unfamiliar stimuli, we run the risk of making mistakes.

If one of us were to see an explosion in a tall building AFTER having been told that a plane had hit a twin building, where smoke was pouring from a hole in its side, it would be virtually impossible to suppose anything besides another plane had hit the second building.

Check out the first fifteen slides of my Buenos Aires Powerpoint, which can be found on the Scholars home page at http://911scholars.org. Whatever hit the North Tower did not look like a Boeing 767. You can check out the structure of the Twin Towers as well.

I would like to ask Dawn to consider that Elias Davidsson has shown that the government has never proven the hijackers were aboard any of the planes. David Ray Griffin has shown that all the phone calls--ALL OF THEM--were fake. What does that tell her?

Pilots has confirmed that the plane shown in the Hezarkahni video is flying faster than aerodynamically possible. The alleged plane enters the South Tower effortlessly, with no deceleration, no crumbling, no breaking off of tail or wings. No falling bodies, seats, or luggage.

The plane passes through its own length into the building in the same number of frames it passes through its own length in air. What does the weight of the evidence suggest: that the children saw a plane hit the building or that the children thought they saw a plane hit the building?

I think Dawn is a very good person and completely sincere, who is doing her best to deal with these issues. We have reviewed the 500 witness reports collated by The New York Times. They were all over the place. There was no consistency to them at all. Virtually incoherent.

And there is something about the relative weight of the evidence. I would like to think that Dawn agrees that events that violate laws of nature--laws of aerodynamics and laws of physics--cannot occur, which means that videos that show them cannot possibly be authentic. Am I right?

I did hear back from my son-in-law's brother, as promised am passing on his comments:

Hi Dawn. I did not see the planes hit, but I stood in a crowded street looking up at a burning hole in the north side of the tower and watching people jump. I asked the people around me what happened. Dozens of them saw it. I lived across the street from an elementary school that is 4 blocks from the site. Several of the children were cryig that a plane hit. They saw it. The guy who worked for me saw it. I didn't see it because I was in my apt, and the windows faced north. I lived it and will never forget it. Anyone who says it didn't happen is exploiting the deaths of thousands of people and trauma of tens of thousands more. To what ends I do not know. I hope that helps. Mike

So, he saw people jumping and knows people who saw plane hit, including the guy who worked for him.
Have not heard back from Caleb Oglesby.

Dawn